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Hi guys,

Just joined to hopefully further my knowledge of the Thompson SMG from the U.K.

I have put a deposit on this one in the photos below.

The serial reads 228383.

It is deactivated but still fully moves/strips etc.

I have also got an M1 Carbine and a Colt 1911.

Is there anything you can tell me about it from the photos?

I have got American Thunder on my watch list.

Adam

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Edited by Ad Lav
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On the bottom of the gun just aft of the grip mount, there should be a letter located there; S for Savage manufacture, or AOC for Auto-Ordnance's Bridgeport factory.

If the trigger frame is Savage the "Full Auto" markings will be on two lines, AOC "Full Auto" will be on a single line. 

There MAY be a serial number on the bottom of the trigger frame, although that was discontinued, because if the original frame and receiver were mis-matched an incorrect serial number would be visible when the guns were in a storage rack.   

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Hello Ad Lav,
I will give your markings a try.
I believe your gun is a Savage made M1, that was updated to the M1A1 configuration. I think I can barely make out the FJA stamp at the front of your receiver, the stamp of Colonel Frank J. Atwood. He was the Army Inspector of Ordnance of the Rochester, New York District, where Savage guns were manufactured. If the serial numbers on the receiver and frame match, you are a lucky man. Matching numbers on the frame and receiver are not common. Your butt stock has been updated with the reinforcing bolt, and you have the "pin" type safety and rocker pivot, features that are an indication of an M1A1 model Thompson. I THINK I can see that your sling swivels are milled, not stamped, another indication that your Thompson started out as an M1 model. 
All in all, it looks like you have purchased a very nice example of a WWII Thompson, that started as an M1 model, and may have been updated to an M1A1 style at a later date. You can see that the A1 part of the stamping on your receiver has been added, either when the gun was made, with a left over M1 receiver, or at a later date as part of a rebuild. Also, this A1 marking is an indication that your bolt will not have a seperate firing pin, but a fixed protrusion on the bolt face. 
Please let us know when you are able to pick up your gun, it's a very nice piece. 

Mark

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If you turn the gun upside down, there should be a small "S" on the receiver, right in front of the magazine well.  For "savage", of course.

Looks like your gun has HOD WB stamped on the rear left side of the receiver.  They look like rebuild stamps, but there is no HOD arsenal that I know of.  

Could be some kind of British markings.  In the USA, sometimes you see police markings, like "LAPD."

https://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/arsenalrebuilds.htm

Mine has RIA and FK stamped there.

Maybe one of these guys on this site will know.   They do seem to know everything!

Edited by Doug Quaid
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Hello and welcome! 

I never see before a all matching M1A1, I have one model converted to semi-auto here in Italy but the the lower don't have the same number, as I know M1 and M1A1's all matching are rare to see.

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18 hours ago, Doug Quaid said:

If you turn the gun upside down, there should be a small "S" on the receiver, right in front of the magazine well.  For "savage", of course.

Looks like your gun has HOD WB stamped on the rear left side of the receiver.  They look like rebuild stamps, but there is no HOD arsenal that I know of.  

Could be some kind of British markings.  In the USA, sometimes you see police markings, like "LAPD."

https://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/arsenalrebuilds.htm

Mine has RIA and FK stamped there.

Maybe one of these guys on this site will know.   They do seem to know everything!

My Colt 1911 has RIA and FK stamped on it - Rock Island Armoury? And Frank Krack, the inspector.

Can’t wait to get it and inspect it closer!

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15 hours ago, Mk1992 said:

Hello and welcome! 

I never see before a all matching M1A1, I have one model converted to semi-auto here in Italy but the the lower don't have the same number, as I know M1 and M1A1's all matching are rare to see.

Going to be interesting to see it in my hands that’s for sure!

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There were US Army Ordnance Branch depots in the ETO that were fully capable of high-level repairs. Overhauls didn't happen only at US arsenals and depots.  

Edited by TSMGguy
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Nice looking Thompson! Unfortunate you have to deactivate them. My live Thompson here in the States is only about 6,000 serial numbers away from yours. Mine was not converted or marked as an A1, however. But it does look identical to yours other than that. Funny that the guns are only a few thousand off but one was modified and one was not. If you're ever in Florida, I'd be happy to let ya shoot mine!

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On 7/23/2024 at 1:03 AM, Mk1992 said:

Hello and welcome! 

I never see before a all matching M1A1, I have one model converted to semi-auto here in Italy but the the lower don't have the same number, as I know M1 and M1A1's all matching are rare to see.


Mine's matching numbers too.  Nice to know it's rare.

It has "EPPD" electro-penciled very lightly on the lower as well.   If only I could figure out what PD that is!   El Paso?

 

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On 7/31/2024 at 12:28 PM, TSMGguy said:

There were US Army Ordnance Branch depots in the ETO that were fully capable of high-level repairs. Overhauls didn't happen only at US arsenals and depots.  

 

Did they stamp the guns?  Is there a list of stamps?

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Only WW2 European Theater ordnance stamp I am aware of would be P.B.S. which is Peninsular Base Section located in Italy. I have only seen it on overhauled M1 rifles. The stamp is usually located under the rear handguard and is only visible when the handguard is removed. 

I have not seen a US ordnance depot stamp  on a Thompson that was not within the USA. If are known examples I would love to see them.

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My Savage M1A1 has an RIA rebuild stamp on it.  It's a typical nice minty rebuild.

The FOIA documents I obtained showed that it was registered by International Armaments Corporation in 1960 on a Form 2.   

(ATF neglected to redact International Armaments off of the form for some reason.)

Form 2 is for the manufacture or importation of an MG, correct?  So that infers that Interarms re-imported my M1A1 from overseas.  Or is Form 2 how Interarms registered surplus arms from the US military?  Did they even ever get surplus arms from the US military?

Anyway. then it was sold to a police department in 1963.

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2 hours ago, Ad Lav said:

I’ll have to look into the FOIA for mine.

Would it be tricky as a resident from the U.K.?

I suspect it would turn up nothing, as your Thompson wouldn't have a paper trail to follow from an NFA registry perspective. Arms made for the military aren't registered and documented like the ones that are sold to the public or law enforcement agencies here in the US.

Whatever records there were of its manufacture and sale to the US government would be about as much as might exist and are probably lost to history.

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