Idle thoughts

[StrangeRanger]

Eugene Reising learned his trade in part by working under John M. Browning.  So here's an interesting (to me at least) question:

Did Browning ever experiment with the concept of an SMG but never actually develop one?  And if so how much of it ended up in the Reising M50?  Some of the Reising's design elements, specifically the closed bolt operation and the bolt that tips upward at the rear to lock into the receiver show a Browning influence

[Ivan]

IIRC one of JMB's first auto weapon experiments was a Winchester lever rifle (pistol caliber) converted to gas operation which resulted in the Colt Potato Digger MG.

The Pistol caliber auto weapon idea was catching on just prior to JMB death in 1926. 
 

[dalbert]

AFAIK, John Browning never delved into the SMG world, though who knows what would have happened if he had!

David

[reichstall]

you know they may have talked over coffee sure why not. We all know he never showed any, but I would think it was on the radar.

[DINK]

Here's another idle thought:

 

We all know that the published cyclic rate of the Reising is nowhere near the cyclic rate they actually have when shot today.  The assumption I have seen is that the company pretty much just lied about it.  What if the published figure was true for a brand-new Reising, but as soon as the locking recess in the receiver and the back surfaces of the bolt get polished a bit and the corners round off in usage, the delay in the delayed blowback loses its effectiveness and it just reverts to a straight blowback with a too-light bolt, jacking up the cyclic rate?  The tilting bolt wasn't added by accident- it was supposed to do something.  What would the cyclic rate be if we could somehow find a factory fresh, unfired Reising and check the cyclic rate?

[StrangeRanger]

I don't have any way of measuring the hardness of the recess in the receiver but Jason at Indy Ordnance measured the bolt at Rc45.  Presumably the recess is 5 points or so harder since the bolt is the service part.  With those sorts of hardnesses I wouldn't expect to see a lot of burnishing effect.

I think maybe H&R simply had no accurate way of measuring cyclic rate and made a best guess.

[dalbert]

When I think of John Browning working with Eugene Reising, and this is just in my mind, I think of a dominating type of personality that took all credit for any innovation.  I have been unable to ascertain through much research exactly what contributions others who worked under Browning may have made.  I surmise in my book on Reising that he may have had a part in the final hammer design, as it was changed during the time he worked with Browning, and he used a very similar hammer design on his subsequent Reising pistols.  I have not been able to substantiate my theory, but I think the circumstantial evidence supports the idea.  I wish there were some better notes on that time period of about 1907 to 1911.

I don’t think a subgun was seriously considered by Browning.

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[bob_da_guy]

I just watched the C&Rsenal video on the Pederson Device. In it Othais discuss a potential pistol caliber thing proposed by J.M. Browning.