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Thompson 28 Bolt issue


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Gentlemen

A friend and I were at the range with our Thompsons. We both have WH 28 with all GI parts (bolts, actuators, lower- barrels).   His 28 started to jam, FTF.      We took his apart and found that the bolt rim/lip was smashed/bent out at the bottom (feeding side).   He did not drop the bolt, but he was using Winchester and Wolf, both are Steel case ammo.    Has anyone experience this before?  If so, this is a good reason not to use steel case ammo.

Thanks  Moose

 

 

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I haven't bought or shot steel case ammo in anything for probably 25 to 30 years. Was advised by a gun shop owner years ago when I was buying Kimbers and Colt handguns. He said to me "I don't understand why people buy high dollar pistols and shoot the cheapest ammo they can fine through them" 

Stampcollector 

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11 minutes ago, Stampcollector said:

I haven't bought or shot steel case ammo in anything for probably 25 to 30 years. Was advised by a gun shop owner years ago when I was buying Kimbers and Colt handguns. He said to me "I don't understand why people buy high dollar pistols and shoot the cheapest ammo they can fine through them" 

Well, because in a 1911, the only wear would be on the extractor and they are cheap. pre Covid , steel was 40% cheaper. That's a lot of extracotrs. Used to shoot it in my Nighthawks all the time. Carry gun is $6300 Damascus steel and still shoot anything in it.

Chappy.

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1 hour ago, Chappy said:

Well, because in a 1911, the only wear would be on the extractor and they are cheap. pre Covid , steel was 40% cheaper. That's a lot of extracotrs. Used to shoot it in my Nighthawks all the time. Carry gun is $6300 Damascus steel and still shoot anything in it.

Chappy.

Oh hey, Chappy. I just buy brass case ammo. I know a lot of shooters today that shoot steel case and have no problem. I'm not telling anyone not to shot it, it's only a personal choice for me. I save the brass too. 

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Bug

I will have to check with him and see whose stamp is on it.  I remember us buying them and all the GI parts at the creek.

As for steel case, I use the Romanian 8mm steel case in my FA Browning 1919 and it runs very good.  Also use steel case in my Colt M16 chambered in 9mm.

Do not use it in the M16 in 223, Thompson or the SW76.     

Thanks Moose

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18 minutes ago, Stampcollector said:

Oh hey, Chappy. I just buy brass case ammo. I know a lot of shooters today that shoot steel case and have no problem. I'm not telling anyone not to shot it, it's only a personal choice for me. I save the brass too. 

Truthfully so do I knowadays. Cheap Russian steel is long gone so I shoot 9mm @ 21 cents and .45 at ,37. I save the brass as emarrasing as it is for my boys to call me a Brass Goblin. With 30-06 brass selling for as much ad .50 and .45 for about .10 its worth be a Goblin.

Chappy

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I've read here that much (most? all?) US WW2 .45 ammo was steel-cased.   Phil

.45 ACP M1911 Ball Evansville 50rd Box WWII 1943<br> Lot S-S25244

1943 Original WWII Boxes of .45 ACP ammo from Evansville Chrysler contract. Ammo is WWII Production steel case with head stamps "EC 43 S", Lot S-S25244. Super add for the collector. Only a few boxes available, all are full with original ammo. Ammo is excellent, boxes are very good shape overall. Samples from boxes available are pictured.
 
 
 
 
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I'll add my $0.02 from a reliability standpoint. Over the years, I've fired many thousands of rounds of steel cased Wolf through AKs and ARs, though admittedly never through my Thompson.

It has been (surprisingly) among the most reliable ammo I've ever run. It is dirty, and my chrono indicates velocity varying significantly more from shot to shot... but never had a squib, and the only malfunctions I think I've ever encountered have been due to hard primers or lacquered cases sticking in the chamber after being run hard.

I'd shoot good steel case through my Thompson before I'd consider el-cheapo brass cased reloads from some unknown online supplier.

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Look up the British armorer notes on steel case ammunition during WWII and then decide “during an ammunition shortage brass case 45acp ammunition will be held in reserve for units predominantly issued Thompson’s. Units predominately issued M3’s will be issued the steel case ammunition” this was due to the steel case ammo breaking bolt heads as you have seen in the OP’s pics. But do as you will as it’s your own gun, ammo, and repair bill if something happens. 

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13 hours ago, anjong-ni said:

 

I've read here that much (most? all?) US WW2 .45 ammo was steel-cased.   Phil

.45 ACP M1911 Ball Evansville 50rd Box WWII 1943<br> Lot S-S25244

1943 Original WWII Boxes of .45 ACP ammo from Evansville Chrysler contract. Ammo is WWII Production steel case with head stamps "EC 43 S", Lot S-S25244. Super add for the collector. Only a few boxes available, all are full with original ammo. Ammo is excellent, boxes are very good shape overall. Samples from boxes available are pictured.
 
 
 
 
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Prices?

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I'm pretty sure that bolt can be repaired,I know I would/could,if your buddy is going to trash it see if he wants to get rid of it.I would heat it with some voltage and tap it back and finish reharden.And ammo is a choice all up to tge individual some guns I will use it in,some I wont.Thompson is a definat wont.A .45 uzi is different it eats everything even supers

Edited by Countryboy77
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Or for less that $100-$200 why risk it in a $20,000+ gun? If you can afford the gun, don’t cheap out on replacement parts or ammo. Trying to fix a bolt like this makes no real sense as you can literally find dozens of NOS 1928 type bolts for not much money. Cost you more time and effort than it’s worth. 

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I've fired a lot of WWII Chrysler Evansville EC ammo and have found it to be utterly reliable but very smoky and dirty. It does no damage. The resulting sludge is easily cleaned up by regular cleaning methods. 

Over five billion rounds of .45 ball ammo were produced by the US during WWII. Steel cased ammo was relegated to stateside training only. Ammo issued in combat theaters was all brass cased. Steel cased ammo was provided to US allies under various assistance programs.   

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The OP stated it was in a WH 1928 gun and you can see the Blish slots in the pic so no reason you should have thought it was an M1 when it clearly was stated it was not the case. 
 

That last statement isn’t entirely true as steel cases from 45 ammo was found on ETO battlefields. Again something that has been documented. 

Edited by Got Uzi
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We were lucky to run across a guy selling brand new 28 bolts in the wrap at the Creek one year. $50 each or two for $90.  We both acquired two each.  Thinking back, (hindsight) we should have acquired more of them.       My friend Glen (Whittenberger) brought me into the NGA world and taught me to have extra parts.  Before he passed, he sold his Thompson and parts to another buddy in our group, Jeff. 

I like this site because of the knowledge base and people willing to help you out.

Thanks  Moose

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Moose1,

Everyone misses Glen. He and Beth were such a great couple. 

Smart move buying an extra NOS bolt. Now your friend has a nice display piece. Both of you should join one or both of the Thompson Associations and attend a Show & Shoot in Ohio. I guarantee it will be worth the drive. We have a lot of members from Michigan! Send me a PM if you need more information. 

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Bug

He said the bolt is marked with a S, Savage.

TD     Yes, I need to join and attend both of the club's events. I met some of the guys at the Novi antique show when they had the Thompson display.  I brought in some finned Thomspon barrels and other parts to ask some questions about them.  I met the late Mike Wank, Roger, Phil and Tracie.  Great guys- very knowledgeable.    I worked with Dave Evans at TACOM (Tank arsenal) and he is a member.

FYI,  we have a TACOM event, where we rent the Pontiac Lake range (in Waterford) six times a year. The last shoot is coming up Oct 29th,  9am to 4.  They charge $15 for the whole day if anyone is available.

Thanks Moose

 

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