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1921 Parts Kit, Gordon Herrigstad’s reproduction run.


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Guys, picked this item up off eBay. Excellent quality, brand new and shipped in the original numbered boxes.  Unit came wrapped in original tissue paper and the barrel snake and bore brush in a matching separate box.  Very nice work by this man. 

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Some call that an “authentic reproduction” where as I call that a flat out FAKE. Had Gordon cared, he’d have marked his kits with a mark or something to clearly show it wasn’t an original but instead he made them so close you need calipers and a loop to tell the difference. 

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The Spare Part Kits (SPK) that Gordon had manufactured and sold were excellent copies of the original. Gordon never tried to pass one off as an original, but he certainly opened the door for others in the future to do so. There was a loud cry by many in the Thompson community when this reproduction SPK became available. Enthusiasts complained the Gordon SPKs were so good a copy that it was impossible to tell the difference with an original. Of course, that turned out not to be true. However, if you don't know how to identify an original SPK (and there are 3 variations) you could certainly spend a lot of money on this reproduction.

Shortly after the introduction, Gordon was finally convinced to mark his SPKs. Doug Richardson was involved in getting Gordon to mark the kits. And Gordon did so. Some of the early numbered and already sold SPKs were not marked but the great majority are. I tell the story of the SPK in my Amateur's Guide book. This publication resulted in much more information becoming available, including the different SPK variations and how Gordon marked the SPKs that a follow-up chapter on this subject is included in my third book, A Thompson Compendium

I understand the use of the word fake. There is no good reason these kits were not marked during the manufacturing process. I have always said if you are in the market for an original SPK, you need to understand the product and have a Gordon kit in your pocket for comparison purposes. I believe my writings on this subject can save most people from making a mistake but hands on or in-person observation of original SPKs is invaluable to really understanding this very expensive and rare product. The Thompson Associations Shows are an excellent place to find original SPKs on display with very knowledgeable owners. 

Rekraps, Congratulations on your Gordon SPK. When Gordon's remaining stock is sold out, I imagine the value will increase in the secondary market. 

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On 10/25/2024 at 9:49 PM, Got Uzi said:

Some call that an “authentic reproduction” where as I call that a flat out FAKE. Had Gordon cared, he’d have marked his kits with a mark or something to clearly show it wasn’t an original but instead he made them so close you need calipers and a loop to tell the difference. 

For goodness sakes, of course it's a reproduction! About that there is no question, but golly gee its a super nice one and the box has an insert with his name on it, and the shipping box is numbered. I see nothing here that indicates this is being presented as an original.

To me, it's an excellent addition to my collection and a worthy addition at that. It has history, quality and there are just a few of them out there. I just happened to get one!

So take that. 

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On 10/26/2024 at 9:40 AM, TD. said:

The Spare Part Kits (SPK) that Gordon had manufactured and sold were excellent copies of the original. Gordon never tried to pass one off as an original, but he certainly opened the door for others in the future to do so. There was a loud cry by many in the Thompson community when this reproduction SPK became available. Enthusiasts complained the Gordon SPKs were so good a copy that it was impossible to tell the difference with an original. Of course, that turned out not to be true. However, if you don't know how to identify an original SPK (and there are 3 variations) you could certainly spend a lot of money on this reproduction.

Shortly after the introduction, Gordon was finally convinced to mark his SPKs. Doug Richardson was involved in getting Gordon to mark the kits. And Gordon did so. Some of the early numbered and already sold SPKs were not marked but the great majority are. I tell the story of the SPK in my Amateur's Guide book. This publication resulted in much more information becoming available, including the different SPK variations and how Gordon marked the SPKs that a follow-up chapter on this subject is included in my third book, A Thompson Compendium

I understand the use of the word fake. There is no good reason these kits were not marked during the manufacturing process. I have always said if you are in the market for an original SPK, you need to understand the product and have a Gordon kit in your pocket for comparison purposes. I believe my writings on this subject can save most people from making a mistake but hands on or in-person observation of original SPKs is invaluable to really understanding this very expensive and rare product. The Thompson Associations Shows are an excellent place to find original SPKs on display with very knowledgeable owners. 

Rekraps, Congratulations on your Gordon SPK. When Gordon's remaining stock is sold out, I imagine the value will increase in the secondary market. 

Thanks. I did not hesitate to buy it at all. Once in hand I really understood the quality of the box.. just amazing.

Great history write-up. Thanks for that also.

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I call it a fake as all it takes is someone who isn’t knowledgeable on them, OR someone who is out for a quick buck to pass it off as an original (see the “Marine Service Kit thread” Given this one had the box and the tag, it made it easier to know what it was, but give it one or two owners and that can/could change.  
 

I stand by my opinion on this as it’s only going to get harder in the future to tell some of this stuff apart. The more “authentic reproduction” parts that are made and not marked, will lead to more scammers pass off fakes as legit items in the future. 

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2 hours ago, Got Uzi said:

I call it a fake as all it takes is someone who isn’t knowledgeable on them, OR someone who is out for a quick buck to pass it off as an original (see the “Marine Service Kit thread” Given this one had the box and the tag, it made it easier to know what it was, but give it one or two owners and that can/could change.  
 

I stand by my opinion on this as it’s only going to get harder in the future to tell some of this stuff apart. The more “authentic reproduction” parts that are made and not marked, will lead to more scammers pass off fakes as legit items in the future. 

I can now buy into  your position. I fully intend to keep the unit intact, to include the stamped paper parts list, clearly indicating Gordon's sourcing of the unit. 

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There’s a reason a book on “reproduction part-accessories” has never been printed….it would literally be a blueprint on how to make the best fakes out there. As these items go up in value, the desire to scam people becomes more and more likely….really takes the fun out of things. 

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On 10/28/2024 at 6:13 AM, Rekraps said:

I can now buy into  your position. I fully intend to keep the unit intact, to include the stamped paper parts list, clearly indicating Gordon's sourcing of the unit. 

The problem is not you, but the future.  15 years from now you croak unexpectedly.  The kit is in an original FBI case and your heirs can't tell what's what, or your stuff goes to some dealer who handles mostly suppressors and assumes all this stuff is real.  By then only a few old guys recall these repro's even being on the market, so that's how it ends up being "real" when it's not.  And it's not obvious.  A friend had 4 originals I looked at several times.  I have the same repro and have no idea how to tell them apart?  

Got a call the other day....a guy has an M1 thompson for sale at like 45K.  Super mint....cause he was told it was made in April of 1986 when he got it from the estate's wife.   He thinks it's the real deal cause he has an SOT but no experience and probably looked at some gunbroker auction as his only frame of reference?  This guy has serious gun creds, and was a big time shooter and LE guy. 

I think most people would be shocked at the amount of fake stuff that's now regarded as original by most collectors?   There is repro stuff in Segel's book, that's now has provenance as being original since it's in print.

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10 hours ago, johnsonlmg41 said:

The problem is not you, but the future.  15 years from now you croak unexpectedly.  The kit is in an original FBI case and your heirs can't tell what's what, or your stuff goes to some dealer who handles mostly suppressors and assumes all this stuff is real.  By then only a few old guys recall these repro's even being on the market, so that's how it ends up being "real" when it's not.  And it's not obvious.  A friend had 4 originals I looked at several times.  I have the same repro and have no idea how to tell them apart?  

Got a call the other day....a guy has an M1 thompson for sale at like 45K.  Super mint....cause he was told it was made in April of 1986 when he got it from the estate's wife.   He thinks it's the real deal cause he has an SOT but no experience and probably looked at some gunbroker auction as his only frame of reference?  This guy has serious gun creds, and was a big time shooter and LE guy. 

I think most people would be shocked at the amount of fake stuff that's now regarded as original by most collectors?   There is repro stuff in Segel's book, that's now has provenance as being original since it's in print.

Very true all. It's impossible to stop and your point about how time erases knowledge is spot on. Like vintage cars the next (even me now) generation of collectors and shooters will have to find SME's (subject matter experts) and pay to have items validated as part of the purchasing process. It will be incumbent on the purchaser to do so. I attended the Cruise the Coast event in MS a few weeks ago and the majority of "vintage" cars all had non-OEM items. I knew this as I grew up around autos, but to the average collector, they looked great.

My deal is that I want to know what I am buying. Yes the kit is a reproduction, and I know that, but to me the quality, provenance and limited production makes it valuable in my mind, and a nice addition to my collection. Small potatoes I know when compared to a SMG. Personally, I think the auction houses are complicit in passing off high dollar items that in fact are not what they represent. That is sad.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/27/2024 at 11:43 AM, Rekraps said:

For goodness sakes, of course it's a reproduction! About that there is no question, but golly gee its a super nice one and the box has an insert with his name on it, and the shipping box is numbered. I see nothing here that indicates this is being presented as an original.

To me, it's an excellent addition to my collection and a worthy addition at that. It has history, quality and there are just a few of them out there. I just happened to get one!

So take that. 

 

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I’ve been following this thread with interest. Enough Gordon bashing.These kits were supplied with a numbered insert with Gordon‘s address and number of production.If you do your homework, you can easily tell the difference between an original and a Gordon reproduction. When I had this discussion with Gordon many years ago, he indicated that it was up to the purchaser to determine what they wanted to do with the kit. He supplied all the appropriate information contained within the box, and if one was to remove that it is on them. If you own a Gordon reproduction box and you are that bothered by the providence, you are always welcome to scratch the word REPRODUCTION in the case with a nail. This will assure the next purchaser does not have to do his or her due diligence on what is real and what is not. Perhaps we could start a registry of those who are inclined to mark their parts cases as reproduction to prevent any issues for our ancestors in the future. 

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It’s doing your homework and knowing that there are indeed “reproductions”  You can “easily” tell it’s a reproduction? Well how many know where, what or how to tell the difference without a book and calipers? It doesn’t bother me, but the poor newbies who will buy a FAKE being passed off as a real one? Not everyone has morals when it comes to selling stuff like this. I’m not “Gordon bashing” but pointing out that he did a HUGE disservice to the Thompson community with these and in my opinion did the entire community a disservice by NOT marking the kits when they were first made. A piece of paper or a box can disappear, but if it was stamped or marked then there would have been no question. 

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Anyone that makes a near identical reproduction item without a mark or identifier of some type does a great disservice to the firearms community. Let someone new to the community buy a fake or reproduction item touted as an original and we many very well loose what could have been a contributing long-time member. That hurts everyone.

Having written extensively on the Colt era Spare Part Kit and Gordon reproduction kits, I can attest from speaking with the original Gordon kit manufacturer that marking the kits would not have increased the cost. What I found interesting was the uproar when these kits were introduced in the Thompson community was such that Gordon was convinced to mark the kits. But Gordon only told a few of his closest friends about the mark. He let the uproar continue! The earliest kits Gordon sold were not marked. The marking occurred somewhere between kit number 39 and 80. Those with my third book, A Thompson Compendium, can turn to page 162 to learn more about the Herigstad mark. 

I actually have more problems with the Gordon long cleaning rods. Again, not marked. These can be much more difficult to identify. And will remain so in the future.    

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Whatever did/did not or should have happened 20 years ago when these kits were manufactured is irrelevant at this point. What is relevant is educating yourself on being able to verify an original kit over the many reproductions out there over the years.

I am curious to know if there is anyone here that owns a known reproduction kit and believes that they should have been marked when manufactured, that has taken their own initiative to engrave it “Reproduction”??? If so how did you mark it? 

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On 11/12/2024 at 9:12 PM, inertord said:

Whatever did/did not or should have happened 20 years ago when these kits were manufactured is irrelevant at this point. What is relevant is educating yourself on being able to verify an original kit over the many reproductions out there over the years.

I am curious to know if there is anyone here that owns a known reproduction kit and believes that they should have been marked when manufactured, that has taken their own initiative to engrave it “Reproduction”??? If so how did you mark it? 

I for one will do nothing to the kit I now own.  

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I purchased a kit from Gordon, yes its a repro and in the collection I have shows well, I have the insert inside and original box it was shipped in, its a well produced item and agree hard to see the difference between original, should it be called a reproduction or a new manufactured 20 years ago?

Myself would never sell or attempt to claim its original but lets be fair Gordon made items available to us for a fair price and we were happy to purchase them to display, either we just wanted it instead of paying 20 times more who cares, he never claimed it was original.

if you want a original go for it, if you dp not want a newer manufactured on do not buy it but hech he never tried to scam anyone

 

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I was able to get a parts kit and cleaning rod from e-bay last week. I was happy to find both items; they were accurately described and seemed reasonably priced. I have been reading about parts kits/rods for years but never saw either item for sale. As far as I am concerned they are just display items for my 1928 along with web gear, manuals and assorted stuff. I would not dream of passing either item off as original and while I don't generally like reproduction items - high quality pieces like this add to the collection even as reproductions! Why did all the kits suddenly come up for sale? A Canadian dealer I purchase from occasionally had two original Auto Ordnance manuals, a Mills C-drum case and eight Mills and Russell L-drum cases for sale (all gone now). It seems odd to see all the TSMG accessories come to market at once.

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