Buzzbomb Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 Hi my intrigued guests, I have the opportunity to secure an M1A1 down here in NZ. it is marketed as being unfired,still in the grease X Russian lend lease. That being said, does the finish look original period? And some of the stampings look a little light and uneven. Is the add truthful? Or has it been refinished at some stage? Many Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taliaferro Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 It looks factory new. During WWII they were not too worried if the markings were even. Good Luck Tracie Hill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
signal_4 Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 (edited) I hope you bought it cause it says out of stock now. Are you F-ing kidding me ! Now I def know that the US gun market is so over inflated when you can buy this gun for $2800 US/$5000 NZ. These are the prices this SHOULD be over in the US. The inspector Stampings will most always be uneven. Recon Bob said the always held it at some offset angle when hitting it. That being said there are some things in the description that seem a little over embellished. If it’s truly a Russian Lend Lease it should have a “US PROPERTY” in some fashion depending on if is Savage or Bridgeport AO and stamped on the rear of the receiver. There is no picture in the listing showing this. It’s def not one of the last group of Thompson made. The serial number is in the 500x range , so maybe late 42 or 43, and they went up to 800k and even closer to 1 mil I think. It’s also def not 1940’s as the M1/A1 version wasn’t being made then. It would have been an 1928 if it had been brought to NZ in 40. The Finish does original to me at least, but I’m not an expert on spotting that by any means But it’s a fantastic looking gun and I hope you got it !!!!! And now I’m moving to NZ ! Edited January 3 by signal_4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMGguy Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 This gun has been Parked, by whom we don't know. All TSMGs had black oxide (bluing) as the original finish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzbomb Posted January 3 Author Report Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, TSMGguy said: This gun has been Parked, by whom we don't know. All TSMGs had black oxide (bluing) as the original finish. Can you explain a bit more? No one else has picked up on this? And they all (m1a1) look green to me! tx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 The "unfired, still in the grease" part is concerning to me. You need to go and look at this gun in person. What jumped out at me while reviewing the pictures was the front sight pin. It appears to be flattened on the right side. I do like the two-tone look between the receiver and barrel but believe the barrel may have been replaced. If so, the story being told by the seller as "unfired, still in the grease" falls apart. The word Russia mentioned with the sale of anything Thompson is always a red flag for me. I have seen plenty of well-used Thompson parts that were supposedly "new" in the crate Lend-Lease Thompson guns when cut up as parts kits. Again, go look at it in-person. All that said, it would probably make a great shooter grade Thompson submachine gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Quaid Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 (edited) The original finish on M1/M1A1 Thompsons was that DuLite black oxide that they used on everything. It should look charcoal black. Like the barrel or the mag. The finish of the black oxide varies from very matte to bright and shiny, depending on the surface finish "smoothness" of the part that it was applied to. Parkerized finish was applied when the guns were rebuilt at various US arsenals. See if you can find the rebuild stamp on the receiver. When the guns are fresh from being rebuilt, they look brand new sometimes, if they put new wood on them and did not issue them. Looks like the barrel was installed after the gun was rebuilt. Maybe someone installed a NIW USGI barrel on it sometime over the last 50 years. Your gun looks like a rebuild with used wood on it, and maybe a new barrel. That's my take on it, YMMV. As always, "buy the gun and not the story." Edited January 4 by Doug Quaid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyDixon Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 some howthe firing pin looks a little worn,, or is just my eyes ? , just sayn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, BillyDixon said: some howthe firing pin looks a little worn,, or is just my eyes ? , just sayn Nope, I think your eyes are ok as it looks flat to me too instead of having a round top. Also that wood has been around the block several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 Oh, and that cosmoline is way to tan to be old. Old cosmoline is dark in color. It is tan when you spray it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMGguy Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 The wood is pretty dinged up, too. They didn't leave the factory that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbcps Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 "$2800 US/$5000 NZ. These are the prices this SHOULD be over in the US." We pay that for some deactivated wall hangers in the UK, due to our draconian firearms laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
signal_4 Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 50 minutes ago, rpbcps said: "$2800 US/$5000 NZ. These are the prices this SHOULD be over in the US." We pay that for some deactivated wall hangers in the UK, due to our draconian firearms laws. Some people are wanting that for torched up or partial parts kits here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 WELL WAIT UNTIL THEY SELL THE BOAT ANCHOR 20,000 LEAGUES UNDER THE SEA MODEL FOR $20 G.BUY IT GUYS HAVE SOLD PARTS KITS FOR THAT PRICE. ITS NOT A MUSEUM GUN ITS NOT PATTONS OR PERSHINGS ITS WHAT IT IS A WAR TIME USED GUN. WITH NO FREAKING PITS OR RUST. BUY IT.. AND BE HAPPY.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzbomb Posted January 4 Author Report Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, colt21a said: WELL WAIT UNTIL THEY SELL THE BOAT ANCHOR 20,000 LEAGUES UNDER THE SEA MODEL FOR $20 G.BUY IT GUYS HAVE SOLD PARTS KITS FOR THAT PRICE. ITS NOT A MUSEUM GUN ITS NOT PATTONS OR PERSHINGS ITS WHAT IT IS A WAR TIME USED GUN. WITH NO FREAKING PITS OR RUST. BUY IT.. AND BE HAPPY.... Rodger that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 Let me add this have done the Thompson thing for well over 50 years. might be a few left in country longer. but i highly doubt...that is one nice gun, in finish and metal looks great. Wood can always be replaced. or redone. but it has the look of use. which is what some strife for....unless you have a new in crate one this is the one. i would be sending a check today for 10 like that heck maybe 20 of them.. you hit the gold with that place. and remember with Thompsons do homework always, but also go on what you know also the guy feeling. i bought so many Thompsons of some that looked before and passed on them and the rest i bought as first offering so nobody else would get chance to get it. sec company, police depts and some private sale. many a collector started in the 90's and later.I had a 20 year jump. considering i went and saw Earl in 1971,and many many more who are now gone, who i considered friends and not just for Thompsons.I DON'T GET INTO THE MINUTE DETAILS OF A SCREW OR PIN. OR IS THE COMP TOUCHED UP BLUE. AND WHO FINGER PRINTED THE BUTTSTOCK LATCH. AFTER AWHILE no need for that...when you have seen hundreds and hundreds you know what to look for. it was always fun in decades past all the so called experts. would give me a call on this or that. as nobody knows it all we still learn daily but all the so called experts did bizz with me and we bought from one another for years. and some for decades. you came to the right place for info. And you found a decent one be proud. i hope you got lucky and secured it. and have a good 2025. Ron K. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzbomb Posted January 4 Author Report Share Posted January 4 30 minutes ago, colt21a said: Let me add this have done the Thompson thing for well over 50 years. might be a few left in country longer. but i highly doubt...that is one nice gun, in finish and metal looks great. Wood can always be replaced. or redone. but it has the look of use. which is what some strife for....unless you have a new in crate one this is the one. i would be sending a check today for 10 like that heck maybe 20 of them.. you hit the gold with that place. and remember with Thompsons do homework always, but also go on what you know also the guy feeling. i bought so many Thompsons of some that looked before and passed on them and the rest i bought as first offering so nobody else would get chance to get it. sec company, police depts and some private sale. many a collector started in the 90's and later.I had a 20 year jump. considering i went and saw Earl in 1971,and many many more who are now gone, who i considered friends and not just for Thompsons.I DON'T GET INTO THE MINUTE DETAILS OF A SCREW OR PIN. OR IS THE COMP TOUCHED UP BLUE. AND WHO FINGER PRINTED THE BUTTSTOCK LATCH. AFTER AWHILE no need for that...when you have seen hundreds and hundreds you know what to look for. it was always fun in decades past all the so called experts. would give me a call on this or that. as nobody knows it all we still learn daily but all the so called experts did bizz with me and we bought from one another for years. and some for decades. you came to the right place for info. And you found a decent one be proud. i hope you got lucky and secured it. and have a good 2025. Ron K. Thanks for the input Ron. Appreciate it. I have asked the seller to reserve it for me until I can drum up some cash for it. These are 80 year old guns so bound to have been messed with over the years (Parts robbed,Parts replaced,Parts resurfaced etc) thanks again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzbomb Posted January 5 Author Report Share Posted January 5 I have troved through this forum hunting for info on Russian lend lease M1/M1A1 information and have another query which I assume debunks the “Russian” heritage of this firearm. Why would it have the reinforcement bolt in the but stock if was Russian Lend Lease. Question.. Do we know or think the US would have still been sending Thompsons over in 1945?? Guns that would have had this late feature (Reinforced stock) fitted/upgraded. Im picking someone has robbed the original furniture off this serial number (probably because it was much nicer) and replaced it with this half beat up set that you see on this gun today. Might be cheaper down here. But be nearly impossible to find Thompson furniture on the loose here haha. Thanks all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
signal_4 Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 (edited) The stock set is correct for that Thompson. M1A1 had the reinforced bolts in the stock. Russia received plenty of M1A1 Thompsons from the US in the lend lease. Unless it’s the lighting, the handguard looks different shade of color from the grip and buttstock. I would think most lend leases 1928,M1,M1A1, the receivers will have this US Property stamping. This is what to look for the possibility on that. But as you already read, EVERYONE here in the US wouldn’t think twice about buying it regardless ! Edited January 5 by signal_4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 I collect M1’s and M1A1’s and here’s the point with the gun your agonizing over-it’s a legit and correct “been there, seen that gun” the only thing(s) incorrect is the fore end is the wrong color to match the grip and butt stock but that isn’t an issue….wood stain is your friend to make it match. I can’t tell in the pictures if it has a one piece or two piece grip mount. If it’s a one piece then it’s fine, if it’s a two piece then it “technically” should have a barrel band on it. I would like to see the lettering on the lower as I suspect that the lower is an AOC while the receiver is a savage. Again not the end of the earth, and given the color match I’d say that if I’m correct, it’s been that way for decades. In the end, the guns I collect are original finish and have “been there, done that” and have honest wear. This gun has no issues that i can see which would give me pause to not buy it if it were here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Quaid Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 On 1/5/2025 at 9:37 AM, Got Uzi said: I collect M1’s and M1A1’s and here’s the point with the gun your agonizing over-it’s a legit and correct “been there, seen that gun” the only thing(s) incorrect is the fore end is the wrong color to match the grip and butt stock but that isn’t an issue….wood stain is your friend to make it match. I can’t tell in the pictures if it has a one piece or two piece grip mount. If it’s a one piece then it’s fine, if it’s a two piece then it “technically” should have a barrel band on it. I would like to see the lettering on the lower as I suspect that the lower is an AOC while the receiver is a savage. Again not the end of the earth, and given the color match I’d say that if I’m correct, it’s been that way for decades. In the end, the guns I collect are original finish and have “been there, done that” and have honest wear. This gun has no issues that i can see which would give me pause to not buy it if it were here. The gun is being sold as "unissued", meaning brand new and unused. It is not anywhere remotely close to that. It's unmistakably a well-used mixmaster. In the USA, it would be a "shooter". given the low price in the UK, the OP may decide to acquire the gun "as is", but the seller's blah blah will still remain as nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzbomb Posted January 11 Author Report Share Posted January 11 7 hours ago, Doug Quaid said: The gun is being sold as "unissued", meaning brand new and unused. It is not anywhere remotely close to that. It's unmistakably a well-used mixmaster. In the USA, it would be a "shooter". given the low price in the UK, the OP may decide to acquire the gun "as is", but the seller's blah blah will still remain as nonsense Yes, fully agree that the seller is way off the mark with his claims, or is selling on behalf and has been fed this woeful nonsense by the owner. Thank goodness for this forum and the knowledge of its users. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 It appears more as a rebuild and put into storage so things could be different. I don’t see it being “well used” but opinions are like….well you know…so there is that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsonlmg41 Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 On 1/3/2025 at 1:19 AM, Buzzbomb said: Hi my intrigued guests, I have the opportunity to secure an M1A1 down here in NZ. it is marketed as being unfired,still in the grease X Russian lend lease. That being said, does the finish look original period? And some of the stampings look a little light and uneven. Is the add truthful? Or has it been refinished at some stage? Many Thanks. To answer your questions: Yes, 100% is has been fired. No way to tell how much. Yes, it has been refinished, no question at all about that. The only way to tell if it's Russian lend lease is to research the original documents and see if you find the serial number or range listed of the guns that went there. This would likely big a major project to do from here, likely impossible from NZ. There are many ways it could have gotten to Russia if it ever got there, but I'm not sure any of the info really matters? Or the fact is was in Russia or not, wouldn't typically have any bearing on its value unless there's documentation it was used or owned in some historical famous fashion. For the rest of it's foreseeable future, it's a dummy gun, in good refinished/rebuilt condition. In it's current state if imported into the US, it would be chopped up and worth $1000-1500 retail on a good day. That's the harsh reality. Enjoy viewing it for now, since the next step will likely be the smelter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekraps Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 On 1/3/2025 at 12:59 PM, TD. said: The "unfired, still in the grease" part is concerning to me. You need to go and look at this gun in person. What jumped out at me while reviewing the pictures was the front sight pin. It appears to be flattened on the right side. I do like the two-tone look between the receiver and barrel but believe the barrel may have been replaced. If so, the story being told by the seller as "unfired, still in the grease" falls apart. The word Russia mentioned with the sale of anything Thompson is always a red flag for me. I have seen plenty of well-used Thompson parts that were supposedly "new" in the crate Lend-Lease Thompson guns when cut up as parts kits. Again, go look at it in-person. All that said, it would probably make a great shooter grade Thompson submachine gun. Great points. Plus, if the gun was "new in the grease" I would expect the furniture to be better. But I love the gun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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