yohuang Posted January 6 Report Share Posted January 6 Dealer sample items have 50% - 70% discount. That's cost advantage. What is the biggest disadvantage of FFL/SOT ? In my understanding, ATF agent could come and inspect FFL/SOT at any time. Say, you are law abiding, no fear on that, but that is still annoying. Is that the biggest disadvantage of being a SOT? One SOT in RIAC December auction. The BREN and M3 were dealer samples (for SOT only). Two others were transferables (for everyone, no SOT license requirements) https://youtube.com/shorts/COLW2uPPw5I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted January 6 Report Share Posted January 6 Getting an FFL/SOT just to buy “cheap toys” is a fast way to get yourself into hot water over time. You literally have to check a box on the application saying that it’s not to enhance your personal collection…food for thought…. Downsides to having an FFL/SOT-more stress to deal with. Tax filing with your state, trying to keep up with an evolving (and sometimes devolving market) tying up a small fortune in stuff, plus the paperwork aspect of keeping everything straight when it’s coming in and going out….AND the personal liability that if you screw up really bad, you could be in a world of hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yohuang Posted January 6 Author Report Share Posted January 6 Sounds like not worth the trouble unless plan to accumulate many of these... That's my original feeling on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewisfan Posted January 6 Report Share Posted January 6 My experience (20 years part-time) is that it is no big deal. You have to sell stuff to stay in business. Taxes, paperwork, etc. are what they are. Everyone has to do it, and you need to pay attention, and do it right. I only do business with dealers (no public sales). Biggest downside (for me) would be working with the public. Everyone thinks that you get AWESOME super secret FFL-only deals. Spoiler alert...you don't (at least I never have). Everyone wants something for free or at cost. You can end up bickering with someone over $5 on a $1000 item. Really? When I was starting everyone (including existing dealers - minus ONE) told me horror stories and discouraged me from doing it. "Leave it to the experts!". Yeah, ok, whatever. If you're good at paying attention to details and researching things on your own (versus being lazy and taking someone's "word" on it) then you will be fine. If not, then "leave it to the experts" (LOL). Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted January 6 Report Share Posted January 6 Yeah the “deals” ain’t deals anymore! Being the small guy you don’t get in on the bigger discounts or allocation lists like other places. The past few years it’s literally been a race to the bottom as far as prices go. You have to find a niche market or have a pile of money to buy in on inventory to make a dent in things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillinBama Posted January 6 Report Share Posted January 6 I can vouch for Got Uzi's comments, it can be a hassle. That said, my biggest headache is the monthly filing of state sales taxes. I sometimes forget even with reminders, and the penalty is $50 per jurisdiction (I have 3). Some months I have no sales (only GB transfers) and thus owe no tax, but if I forget and don't file the required forms I get hit with the penalty, and $150 is not a small sum when you have such a small business as mine. I got in as an FFL in 1984 mostly to buy powder and primers when they changed the laws on that, and i've been an SOT for the last 20 or so. I sell enough suppressors each year plus a few dozen guns to qualify as a dealer and not get in trouble for only enhancing my collection, which I don't do anyway. As for ATF visiting unannounced, that's never happened to me. They always call ahead of time and schedule a visit. That said, I have not had a compliance check in so long I can't remember. I had some yearly for about 5-8 years and I think they realized my business was so small it wasn't worth the time and trouble they were going through to examine my sales. They did help me early on with some bookkeeping tactics that have made it simpler and easier for me to track individual guns, and hopefully not get in trouble. They always find something, and I think its easier if you have something easy for them to find so they don't keep digging. But since my business is so small (I deal out of my home) its not really much of a hassle for me. The biggest fear I have now is winding my business down, I'm 76 and probably need to end it in the next 3-4 years I've got my name listed with several online sales (like Gunbroker) and Silencer Shop so I get referrals and business sent to me that I'll have to end, plus I don't want any Form 4 applications hanging on and will have to plan far ahead to get everything wound up once I decide to close. I also need to sell off my inventory of both Class I and III items, and may have to contact some of the big dealers that will buy it all as I just struggle to sell of piece-meal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChevTec Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 "Dealer sample items have 50% - 70% discount" Whoever told you that is a f'ing liar. Sure it's 50%+ in something like the HVAC business. Not in the firearm industry. On guns it's very low(sub20% if you are very lucky), on ammo it's practically non-existent, on parts it's somewhere under 50%(more like 20%). One of the biggest disadvantages for a home based person is keeping their inventory squared away and separate from their personal guns. When I take a personal gun into my workshop, I need to tag it so the ATF doesn't stop by and assume I have extra guns I'm selling that aren't on my books. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsonlmg41 Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 The hassle was audits. I had minimal transfers, but the shortest was 3-4 hours for a few guns, then checking the same inventory. Lost wages at my day job cost a lot of money. Then at the time they were hot on zoning, so that cost me a lot of time/money as well. Spent several thousand on transfer taxes just last year alone....but still cheaper than an audit, jumping through the hoops, and the threat of a surprise audit that I have no time for. Maybe when I retire? Are pre-mays and posties cheaper......as the saying goes you get what you pay for. The only advantage to an SOT right now is faster transfer times, but that is a problem they created and hopefully will solve. We're getting close to a decade of times over 60 days and I predict by year 15 we should be getting better? We had form 4 times below 70 days from 1934 to 2016 with paper forms. Times were shorter during WWII than today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 The other issue is being a small time guy, you make a paperwork mistake it can cost you big. Had a guy pick up a suppressor and missed checking the boxes on a 4473, shame on me for missing it too, and even tho the form didn’t mean a darn thing, they nailed me for 6 violations on one form…WHICH DIDNT MEAN JACK $HIT because no background check was being run on said form. The violations can’t exceed 10% of your total 4473’s but I only had 45 forms and 6 “violations” so I was “flagged” for being a bad guy. In the end I was given a written warning as the inspecting agent agreed that the violations didn’t mean anything but that’s the way the higher ups are wanting to do things now. Hassle the guys trying to do it right, but 50-100 guys at huh shows illegally in the business of buying and selling guns every weekend without an FFL is okay tho……uh huh….right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don. Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 The old saying goes…If you want to make a million dollars selling guns, first you need two million dollars… If’n you’re not going to really “engage in the bidnez”, you’re better off not being burdened with the bullshit. If you want to make it exciting, do it under a partnership with three other people, LOL! We’re all still good friends. 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 ATF will show up unannounced and go through your books and guns. If you’ve done nothing wrong- you’ve got nothing to hide. Guy showed up in a ford bronco. Tee shirt and long hair. Said im with the atf. Sure he had an ID. But you can make one yourself in minutes. Spent 3-4 hours. Pulling every gun out of my business safe. Looked at every form and log book. Was very nice and worked well with me. A scary process but went well. if your not willing to open your gun safe to a atf agent then skip it. I buy and sell weekly. All my profits goes into more guns. It’s a way to pay for your gun hobby. Presamples are 50% on average. But not not always. Post samples are typically $1500-6500 for most guns. Many posties are rewelded junk that falls apart or shoots poorly. Things amateurs threw together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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