Archmark Posted May 17 Report Share Posted May 17 Well, I made the leap today at a local auction & ended up with this US Property stamped M1A1. From the few pictures available on the auction site, I was able to determine that it was manufactured by Savage, because the serial number prefix was stamped "NO." vs "No.", which would be an AOC gun. No pics of the underside to see if there's an "S" stamped there, which would indicate a Savage for certain. It's an original, late production M1A1, not a modded, overstamped M1 & it doesn't appear to have any extraneous markings or electric pencil marks indicating a PD gun. I also need a source for period correct 30 rd. mags Lots of 20 rd. ones out there but 30 rd. mags are scarce. I've found out from past experience that a FOIA request from ATF will result in a denial because of "sensitive tax information" contained therein, so I'll have to trace down it's history some other way, if that's even possible. Thanks... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJX Posted May 17 Report Share Posted May 17 Congratulations on your Thompson. Check out apexgunparts for magazines. Many folks have had success with a FOIA, I encourage you to give it a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merry Ploughboy Posted May 18 Report Share Posted May 18 Nice looking Thompson. Congratulations. When I did a FOIA request on the M1A1 that I used to own (FWIW, it was a M1 that was reworked to the A1 configuration at the San Antonio Arsenal) all the FOIA showed was the transfer from a blacked out police department to the dealer that I bought it from. The dealer wouldn't tell me the name of the police department, but he did confirm that the Thompson was one of many that the federal government gave to police departments in the early 1950's. Enjoy many safe shooting times with your Thompson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted May 18 Report Share Posted May 18 What are the proof marks on the gun? GHB or FJA? Pictures of the radius on the reciever where the corners are rounded by the back of the magwell? Any 30 round magazine would be “period correct” if it’s blued. The park’d mags were typically rework/refinish post war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmark Posted May 18 Author Report Share Posted May 18 Thanks guys for the replies and information. I went to Apex & they had numerous small parts for the M1A1 that I can source when I decide what I need to put together for a spare parts kit. Numrich and Sarco also had a little of this and a little of that. As I mentioned earlier, I tried a FOIA with the ATF for an Inland M2 some time ago and got the "sensitive tax information" rebuttal, not even a page with everything redacted. I'll try it again when I get my M1A1; maybe ATF likes them better? Sure... As soon as I get the gun I'll send the requested pictures. The auction site photography left a lot to be desired, but I didn't see the GHB or FJA inspectors marks. The "maker's mark", serial number and "US Property" roll mark seemed clear and deep, but it's possible that the inspectors marks are faint and just don't show up in the pics. Also. being a high 7XXXXX serial number, could it be a gun that was produced at the end of or after WWII, when I understand that they quit doing the inspectors marks on some firearms, like the M1/M2 Carbine. I'll let yall know. About the only pic of the receiver near the magwell was this, and it probably doesn't show enough. Again, thanks for all your help & I'll be picking y'alls brain again in the near future... Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted May 18 Report Share Posted May 18 That rounded edge is indicative of an AOC manufactured receiver Do you have a picture of the left side of the trigger frame? If "FULL AUTO" is on one line then it is also an AOC; if it's on two lines it's a Savage. From what I can see of the trigger frame in the last image you posted I would guess that it's a Savage. Not a big deal if they don't match. A lot of Thompsons have mixed parts as a result of a visit to the armory. My M1 is a Savage upper with an AOC lower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted May 18 Report Share Posted May 18 The M1/M1A1 contracts ended in 1942 so basically all of the M1 type Thompson’s were produced during WWII. That radius does point to it being an AOC gun but the real tell tale will be if it has the GHB inspector marking, given the AOC marking is gone. You can’t get a FOIA unless it’s in your name, otherwise yes it is “sensitive tax information” but all you get is a bunch of papers with literally everything redacted except the dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank I. Posted May 18 Report Share Posted May 18 From American Thunder III page 180... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted May 18 Report Share Posted May 18 Thank you Frank-my memory bank forgot there was a difference in the US Prop markings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted May 19 Report Share Posted May 19 Archmark, Congratulations on your "new" M1A1 Thompson submachine gun. I have never heard that the government inspectors stopped marking or inspecting Thompson guns toward the end of World War II. Production of the Thompson submachine gun ended in February 1944. The last large shipment occurred in December 1943: 31,052 guns. I assume this was guns from both factories. There were no shipments in January 1944, but the government accepted 4,091 M1A1 Thompson guns in February 1944. I believe this was the clean-up period that allowed both manufacturers to complete all guns on the assembly line that could pass inspection. I highly recommend Frank Iannamico's, American Thunder, 3rd Edition. It is a valuable resource for owners of the World War II Thompson submachine guns. When the transfer of your M1A1 Thompson is approved and you have it in-hand, reach out to me and I will help you with the FOIA process. I have been very successful in helping owners of Thompson guns obtain FOIA information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmark Posted May 21 Author Report Share Posted May 21 I got to look at the M1A1 that I won at auction on Saturday. It's all Savage except the lower receiver number does not match the upper serial number. The lower receiver is numbered 5XXXXX & the upper receiver is marked 7XXXXX. 'SER NO.' IS STAMPED WITH AN UPPERCASE 'O'. 'FULL AUTO' is all caps and stamped on 2 lines. 'US PROPERTY' is all caps, stamped on two lines and readable from the rear of the firearm. The Inspectors marks are present but very faint, there is an 'F' stamped on the left side of the receiver in front of the mag well. There's a small piece of the lower finger grove point missing from the handgrip but the foregrip, butt stock & overall finish are nice. There is an original oiler in the butt stock trap and the sling is a well used No Bukl. Where the barrel meets the receiver, on the top, the barrel is stamped 'P' with a small stamped dimple in the middle of the 'P' and another on one maybe 1/32" of an inch on the receiver just below the 'P'. There is a 'J' stamped on the rear sight protection ears in line with the forward two welds. The Thompson trade mark & signature just in front of the rear sight on the upper receiver is clear. That's about all that jumped out at me from the initial inspection before it was sent to my SOT. All in all, I'm happy with my purchase, sight unseen in person until today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmark Posted May 21 Author Report Share Posted May 21 I got to look at the M1A1 that is won at auction on Saturday. It's all Savage except the lower receiver number does not match the upper serial number. The lower receiver is numbered 5XXXXX & the upper receiver is marked 7XXXXX. 'SER NO.' IS STAMPED WITH AN UPPERCASE 'O'. 'FULL AUTO' is all caps and stamped on 2 lines. 'US PROPERTY' is all caps, stamped on two lines and readable from the rear of the firearm. The Inspectors marks are present but very faint, there is an 'F' is stamped on the left side of the receiver in front of the mag well. There's a small piece of the lower finger grove point missing from the handgrip but the foregrip, butt stock & overall finish are nice. There is an original oiler in the butt stock trap and the sling is a well used No Bukl. Where the barrel meets the receiver, the barrel is stamped 'P' with a small stamped dimple in the middle of the 'P' and another on one maybe 1/32" of an inch on the receiver just below the 'P'. There is a 'J' stamped on the rear sight protection ears in line with the forward two welds. The Thompson trade mark & signature just in front of the rear sight on the upper receiver is clear. That's about all that jumped out at me from the initial inspection before it was sent to my SOT. All in all, I'm happy with my purchase, sight unseen in person until today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68coupe Posted May 21 Report Share Posted May 21 All is right with the world if you're happy with it. No if's, and's or but's. It's yours now, and you're keeping it in the mix. Karl, 68coupe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgeport28A1 Posted May 21 Report Share Posted May 21 13 hours ago, Archmark said: I got to look at the M1A1 that I won at auction on Saturday. It's all Savage except the lower receiver number does not match the upper serial number. The lower receiver is numbered 5XXXXX & the upper receiver is marked 7XXXXX. 'SER NO.' IS STAMPED WITH AN UPPERCASE 'O'. 'FULL AUTO' is all caps and stamped on 2 lines. 'US PROPERTY' is all caps, stamped on two lines and readable from the rear of the firearm. The Inspectors marks are present but very faint, there is an 'F' stamped on the left side of the receiver in front of the mag well. There's a small piece of the lower finger grove point missing from the handgrip but the foregrip, butt stock & overall finish are nice. There is an original oiler in the butt stock trap and the sling is a well used No Bukl. Where the barrel meets the receiver, on the top, the barrel is stamped 'P' with a small stamped dimple in the middle of the 'P' and another on one maybe 1/32" of an inch on the receiver just below the 'P'. There is a 'J' stamped on the rear sight protection ears in line with the forward two welds. The Thompson trade mark & signature just in front of the rear sight on the upper receiver is clear. That's about all that jumped out at me from the initial inspection before it was sent to my SOT. All in all, I'm happy with my purchase, sight unseen in person until today... Those are rivets on the rear fixed sight. Hopefully you have zero welds. The F is likely what remains of a Ordnance Department FJA stamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmark Posted May 26 Author Report Share Posted May 26 Yep, no welds and with a closer look the remainder of the FJA stamp is barely visible, as are at least one other very faint stamp. Must have been at the end of the day & the inspector was tired... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Quaid Posted May 26 Report Share Posted May 26 Congrats on your M1A1. The M1 & M1A1 models are fantastic guns, very underrated. Mismatching upper and lower is pretty common. I heartily encourage you to reach out to TD and do a FOIA. Sometimes you get lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmark Posted June 1 Author Report Share Posted June 1 Thanks Doug. Will do on both accounts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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