Was there ever such a thing as a 1921 Colt salesman sample?

[SP Sarge]

Gunbroker just seems to provide continual entertainment.

I'm pretty sure there were never any such thing as a "Colt salesman sample" dummy gun. I've heard of salesman samples that were live weapons that they traveled around with doing demos.

A very reputable auction company who usually has really great stuff at very fair prices, good condition items, and great photos has this for sale..

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1111448011

And they are convinced that this is something super rare and that is a Colt salesman sample dummy gun. (You have to read the description it's a hoot).

 I sent them an email and told them, hey just trying to give you guys a heads up that's not what you think it is. And I explained that's either a Doug Richardson or Philadelphia ordinance dummy receiver, And the parts on that gun all appeared to be either World War 2 era or West Hurley era.  In the description they said Colt did this so that a salesman could travel around the country and not have issues with the NFA. I also explained in my email the NFA didn't come into existence until 1934, and if you're a manufacturer you can travel wherever you want with your goods.

Looks like a West Hurley compensator, ww2 maybe forearm, ww2 stock, ww2 mag catch and controls, ww2 ejector, West Hurley era pistol grip. Not sure on the barrel, but doubtful anything is Colt. 

They already had $1200 worth of bidding on it at the time, now it's up to $2400.  Which is probably fairer for what it truly is. Description hasn't changed and they never responded to my email. 

ReconBob is this one of your display recivers? 

 

Edited Saturday at 09:00 PM by SP Sarge

[BillyDixon]

was this john dillingers personal sales sample ?? just askin

[ppgcowboy]

The only thing Colt is the word Colt. Ahead of their time with the ejector.

[p51]

I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable on Tommy guns as many of you, but even I immediately noticed the modern markings on the upper, and several parts screamed, "Made within the last few years." Those large holes drilled into the bottom of the upper really seem to back up something recently made as a factory display, even non shooting, would have an open upper somewhat like a real one. Why would Colt make a "sample" of something where you couldn't even show the bolt coming back and being released with the trigger?

For those of you who really know the subject, I'm sure you rolled your eyes so far that you may have seen your own grey matter!

Edited Sunday at 01:54 PM by p51

[SP Sarge]

I was hoping ReconBob could look at the photos and comment, or somebody maybe who has one of Bob's display receivers.  There's no close up photos to see his Keystone mark that he puts on his parts, but the reciver sure does look like one of his.

[Rekraps]

Nice looking gun... if that is what you want!

[reconbob]

   I am confident that is a Doug Richardson receiver. The corner rounding of the entire magazine cutout and drum slots is  a distinctive feature. I would guess also a Doug dummy actuator knob.

  I share the curiosity as to why an allegedly original Colt gun would have WW2 parts. The engraving is not authentic Colt, the blued finish is not Colt. And yes, why would you need this non-gun when there was no restriction on machine guns until 1934?

    Did they reply to you when you gave them the heads up? 
 

Bob

[Frank I.]

 

 

[Bill in VA]

There was/is at least one Thompson salesman sample, and it’s a live gun; it is not and never was a dummy gun. Colt 9962 was the personal sales sample of EE Richardson. The gun is currently in Form 10 possession of the Virginia War Memorial Foundation. I’ve seen and held it several times, and our own founder, Frank, wrote a very nice article about the gun for SAR back in 2019. 
 

Here’s a link to the online edition of the article:      
https://smallarmsreview.com/e-e-richardson-the-best-thompson-smg-salesman-of-all-time/

Edit: what do the lists say about the history of Colt 8946? 

Edited Sunday at 03:36 PM by Bill in VA

[SP Sarge]

2 hours ago, reconbob said:

   I am confident that is a Doug Richardson receiver. The corner rounding of the entire magazine cutout and drum slots is  a distinctive feature. I would guess also a Doug dummy actuator knob.

  I share the curiosity as to why an allegedly original Colt gun would have WW2 parts. The engraving is not authentic Colt, the blued finish is not Colt. And yes, why would you need this non-gun when there was no restriction on machine guns until 1934?

    Did they reply to you when you gave them the heads up? 
 

Bob

Hi Bob, I knew you'de know the handywork. No they never answered back.  I guess they figure, well there's already bids on it too late now...just run with it.  And from what I've seen with their past auctions they always have nice stuff, great pictures, and are very reputable. Just way off base on this one.  I know in the past month they blasted out an email that they were traveling to Eastern US collecting stuff from estates and we're gonna have auctions coming up. I think whoever probably sold it to them from an estate fed them all line of crap and they bought the story...and the gun.

[reconbob]

    On the left Colt #4795. On the right a Richardson. Doug was always looking for a better way.

One of his ideas was to deburr/remove the sharp edges from the magazine/drum cutout by machining

all the way around it with a corner rounding mill. OK, less hand work, but that's not what original Thompsons

look like. On real Thompsons only the slots for the drum have the corners rounded and the rest of the cutout

has sharp corners. So I think there is no question the "original" Colt sales sample is built on a Richardson

receiver.  This is a real black eye for this Lock. Stock. and Barrel place.  For all their "expertise" they have

no basic knowledge of history and are gullible and/or un-able to distinguish between original Colt guns

and this modern day replica. I wonder if they try to fix this (they can't pull the auction because it has bids)

by correcting the description,  or just ride it out. It will be interesting if some poor soul believes their story

and ends up paying $10K or more for what they think is a rare Colt item. Then when he finds out he's been

taken the sh*t will hit the fan. I'd like to be a fly on the wall for that...

Bob

[Countryboy77]

They should have cancelled the listing.They can at any time. I learned dealing with auction companys that they sell fake autographed guns and roses guitars out of china ,known fakes on live auction amongst sports memoribila ,antique knives from the 80s as legitamate Turkish antiques.Never bid on an auction unless you KNOW and have done your Homework.And while the auction houses usually stand by their word and will refund its rarely a COMPLETE refund. Unless its Gunjoker like above ,then just consider your up to the mercy of the seller.

Edited Monday at 02:21 AM by Countryboy77

[dalbert]

SP Sarge,

There is a wooden salesman's sample that was used by E.E. Richardson during his sales efforts.  It may not have caught your attention previously, but you can see it again in August.

David

[troll]

Listed as sold......

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

On 7/6/2025 at 10:13 AM, reconbob said:

This is a real black eye for this Lock. Stock. and Barrel place.  

 ... if some poor soul believes their story

and ends up paying $10K or more for what they think is a rare Colt item. Then when he finds out he's been

taken the sh*t will hit the fan. I'd like to be a fly on the wall for that...

Bob

 

The winner seems to trust the seller implicitly as they have nearly a dozen previous transactions. 

Of course you never know when a  false advertising auction could result in seller changing their business to a deli named Lox, Sturgeon & Bagels...

 

 

[rpbcps]

On 7/6/2025 at 4:33 PM, Bill in VA said:

There was/is at least one Thompson salesman sample, and it’s a live gun; it is not and never was a dummy gun. Colt 9962 was the personal sales sample of EE Richardson. The gun is currently in Form 10 possession of the Virginia War Memorial Foundation. I’ve seen and held it several times, and our own founder, Frank, wrote a very nice article about the gun for SAR back in 2019. 
 

Here’s a link to the online edition of the article:      
https://smallarmsreview.com/e-e-richardson-the-best-thompson-smg-salesman-of-all-time/

Edit: what do the lists say about the history of Colt 8946? 

Colt 8946 has a colorful history and over a page of history in Gordons book.

 

[Bill in VA]

Thanks, rpbcps. Unfortunately, I don’t have Gordon’s books to look up #8946. I mentioned the serial number, though, because the aforementioned “Colt’s ‘salesmn sample’” is numbered 8946. Yet more evidence of shenanigans on this particular “gun” that could easily be verified by both the seller and the buyer/bidders. 

[rpbcps]

2 hours ago, Bill in VA said:

Thanks, rpbcps. Unfortunately, I don’t have Gordon’s books to look up #8946. I mentioned the serial number, though, because the aforementioned “Colt’s ‘salesmn sample’” is numbered 8946. Yet more evidence of shenanigans on this particular “gun” that could easily be verified by both the seller and the buyer/bidders. 

Here you go...

[Bill in VA]

Thanks!

[SP Sarge]

On 7/7/2025 at 8:31 AM, dalbert said:

SP Sarge,

There is a wooden salesman's sample that was used by E.E. Richardson during his sales efforts.  It may not have caught your attention previously, but you can see it again in August.

David

Hi Dave, yes I was aware of the wooden one. I should have specified, "Did Colt make dummy guns with Colt receivers"

Edited 1 hour ago by SP Sarge