Tell me about this 1928 A1

[Deavis]

Greetings, 

I have been away for a while, but stumbled on this and knew you guys would be the ones to look this over.

Does this ‘28 A1 look correct to you? Any red flags?

Many thanks for your keen eye(s)

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1120976943

 

- Deavis

[Lewisfan]

I'm rather new to the Thompson genre, but based on reading Frank Iannamico's American Thunder III book (highly recommend), and reading a bunch of the archived info on this site (thanks for the site!), I'll offer some thoughts:

The 511xxx Savage serial number is toward the end of Savage 1928a1 production. Likely in the August / September 1942 time frame (?).  So to me, the story that he carried the gun through campaigns starting in August 1942 looked suspect (just the "start" timing).  As is often said "buy the gun and not the story" - unless there is provenance to back up the story.

Being a late Savage production, I believe that the gun was most likely made with a smooth barrel and a "L" rear sight. It looks like everything but the buttplate may have been re-blued?  The rear stock without the reinforcing bolt would indicate no arsenal rework (so "ok"). 

I'm sure that other more knowledgeable folks will chime in to correct anything that I've messed up.  Do you happen to be the new owner?  It is an attractive looking gun.

[TSMGguy]

Congratulations!

The Blanchard finish milling on the receiver appears to be undisturbed.  I'd want to see pics of the frame serial number. This should be identical to the receiver serial as it was applied with the same dies. The plain actuator knob and plain paddle safety and selector levers are correct for the serial range. Agree, the barrel should be smooth, and the rear sight should be a plain stamped "L".

[BillyDixon]

i cant beleve the USMC gave a guy this gun to take home !  lets see the NFA history, do a FOIA SEARCH , DONT BUY THE STORY, JUST SAYN

[68coupe]

The buffer pilot seems to be protruding from the rear of the receiver quite a bit. It's likely missing the actual buffer.

Nice looking gun, Karl, 68coupe

[inertord]

3 hours ago, TSMGguy said:

Congratulations!

The Blanchard finish milling on the receiver appears to be undisturbed.  I'd want to see pics of the frame serial number. This should be identical to the receiver serial as it was applied with the same dies. The plain actuator knob and plain paddle safety and selector levers are correct for the serial range. Agree, the barrel should be smooth, and the rear sight should be a plain stamped "L".

Receiver / frame serial number photos from the auction 

[Deavis]

American Thunder 3rd ed. Page 134 has a very close relative!

 

 

[Chappy]

Sold at a somewhat decent price. It seems that prices for Thompsons and other select fire are not as soft as they were unless Morphy's was an anomaly.

Edited September 13, 2025 by Chappy

[TSMGguy]

I believe that any really nice items will continue to appreciate. 

[Bridgeport28A1]

As was previously noted in the posting. The adjustable Lyman sight was added some point after leaving the Savage factory. The sight rivets appear to have been ground down flush. The compensator pin ends have been hammered on.

A FOIA should tell the story of it’s registration history.

[damifino]

The six looks like an overstamp on a five. Maybe Friday on the Savage assembly line, and Joe grabbed the wrong stamp, whoopsie, then got the six and a light strike on the zero. Ya never know.

[Deavis]

FOIA request submitted! Since I was filling one out I did one for my M1 as well.

The one I posted from American Thunder is only 102 serial numbers off of mine. It has a knurled actuator.

If the story on gun broker is true it was a REWAT, perhaps they did the sight and the barrel at the same time?

Edited September 13, 2025 by Deavis

[TSMG28]

Deavis,

Yes, it is likely that the rear sight and barrel were changed out when it was re-activated. That is also likely the time it was blued. Most DEWAT barrels were welded closed during this timeframe, so were scrap and needed to be replaced when reactivated.

As has been mentioned, originally it probably had an unfinned barrel and L rear sight.

Congrats on your new toy. 

[Deavis]

Looking closer at #S-511262from the book, I realized it is also the cover girl!

Note finned barrel and Lyman rear.

I wonder the history on that one? Be interesting to know if a FOIA was done on it? S-511162 is listed in the book as (Private Collection). If anyone knows that possessor I’d love to hear it’s story as it could shed some light on mine.

Edited September 14, 2025 by Deavis

[Doug Quaid]

The other day, I was at an NFL game and they called out on the PA system that the quarterback was injured, and asked if there were any volunteers in the grandstands to fill his spot.  So I raised my hand and they had me be quarterback for the rest of the game.  I threw over 200 touchdown passes, breaking all known league records.  

I threw the first 500 yard pass in NFL history. I was in the parking lot and I threw the ball over the side of the stadium directly into the hands of the receiver.  Then I was awarded the NFL Medal of Football Honor.  And the actress Jennifer Lawrence was in the stands, and she fell so in love with me that we got married by the team chaplain at the 50 yard line during halftime.  

Also, on a related note, Sgt. Bill Greeley carried this Thompson gun in all seven Marine Raider invasions, from Guadalcanal through the Solomon Islands.

[TD.]

Doug Quaid,

I was all in until you mentioned Jennifer Lawrence....

Deavis,

Please share the results of the Freedom of Information Act request. If S-511160 was a registered dewat in the past, I am guessing an Interarms import on a Form 2, then a Form 5 tax-exempt transfer to the first civilian owner because of welding/deactivation. The first early redacted pages will tell the tale.

[Doug Quaid]

On 9/13/2025 at 5:38 PM, Deavis said:

FOIA request submitted! Since I was filling one out I did one for my M1 as well.

The one I posted from American Thunder is only 102 serial numbers off of mine. It has a knurled actuator.

If the story on gun broker is true it was a REWAT, perhaps they did the sight and the barrel at the same time?

Congratulations, I did not realize that you had purchased it.  It is a very nice gun. 

The military rebuilt guns in the field and at arsenals, and then there was the police and civilian chain of ownership.  There is no sure way to tell when a gun had a part swap or when or why. 

But the FIOA can be remarkably helpful.  My M1A1 is an RIA arsenal rebuild per the stamps, and the buttstock was marked EPPD.  I figured out that it was a Interarms import that was purchased by a PD and then sold to a wholesale gun outfit in Philly.

Please let us know what the FIOA says, sometimes you get really lucky with those.

 

[Doug Quaid]

14 minutes ago, TD. said:

Doug Quaid,

I was all in until you mentioned Jennifer Lawrence....

Deavis,

Please share the results of the Freedom of Information Act request. If S-511160 was a registered dewat in the past, I am guessing an Interarms import on a Form 2, then a Form 5 tax-exempt transfer to the first civilian owner because of welding/deactivation. The first early redacted pages will tell the tale.

The wedding ring I put on Jennifer was taken from a dead German officer.   As we all know, there is always a dead German officer around for someone to take an artifact off of.  

How many different surplus arms companies were selling dewat US military arms in the 1960s?   I think there was one named Cadmus.

Were US soldiers allowed to keep US arms as trophies?  That idea seems kind of screwy to me.  The Thompson was an alternate standard arm until 1970 or so, correct?  So why would they let anyone just take one for himself?

Did anyone ever write a book or article about dewats?   I know practically nothing about them.

[Doug Quaid]

On 9/13/2025 at 3:25 AM, Chappy said:

Sold at a somewhat decent price. It seems that prices for Thompsons and other select fire are not as soft as they were unless Morphy's was an anomaly.

Thompsons and Colt M16s were selling for about the same price for a long time and then suddenly the Thompson kind of flatlined.  I think that Thompson prices are being depressed by negative chatter on the internet.

The internet is awash right now with neckbeards who are bagging on the Thompson, just babbling out the same bogus "expert" criticisms over and over again, back and forth to each other.   

The marketplace for these guns is so thin that I think it's fairly easy to push the prices up or down with this sort of chatter.  There are times when there is not one single WWII Thompson for sale on any website, the marketplace for these NFA guns is smaller than it seems.  

These neckbeards love to sound like an expert by taking a contrarian position, and it taken hold really hard among the internet expert commando brigade.

It's like when all of the "experts" decided that the Sherman tank was the!! worst!! tank!! evuh!!   (It takes 5 Shermans to knock out one Tiger tank, I tells ya!)  It took about 15 years before everyone finally sobered up on that blather.

They say stuff about the Thompson like that it's "incredibly inaccurate" and has "uncontrollable muzzle rise" and "bad ergonomics." 

Of course the actual service record of the weapon in a global war is ignored.  

The good news is that it's a good time to buy a Thompson.

I want to know how a gun that has 1/3 the free recoil energy of an M16 is "uncontrollable".  I was chewing up targets with my Thompson after the 2nd mag.  I must have cybernetic arms like Robocop!  

 

[Bridgeport28A1]

I thought we should save the “buy the gun not the story”from the  Gunbroker ad before it disappears in a few months.

“For your consideration is a fully transferable, full auto Thompson Sub Machinegun 1928A1 manufactured by the Savage Arms company for the USMC.  This 1928 Savage-made Thompson Submachine Gun was carried by Marine Raider Sgt. William “Bill” Greeley during his World War II service in the Pacific.  This gun has remained in the Greeley family until just recently and is now just being offered for sale.  The Marine Raiders were an elite Marine Corps unit, created by an order from President Roosevelt.  Handpicked from available volunteers, the Raiders were given the best of the Marines' equipment and the mission to conduct amphibious light infantry advance warfare against Japanese-held islands in the south pacific. Sgt. Bill Greeley carried this Thompson gun in all seven Marine Raider invasions, from Guadalcanal through the Solomon Islands, between August 1942 to January 1944.  After his service, the barrel was blocked so that he could bring it home and it was professional reconditioned to service-ready.  After Greeley's passing, ownership of this Thompson passed to his son who worked with the ATF to unplug the barrel and make the fun functional once more.

 

This item is in excellent appearing and functioning and would make a fabulous addition to any collection.  It includes (3) “stick” Magazines, and a (1) A.O. Thompson Type L Drum.

 

This is a unique opportunity  to own a piece of military history that saw legitimate action in the Pacific campaign.  This firearm will transfer via ATF form 3 to your local dealer whereby it can be transferred to the winning bidder, unless you are a NH Resident, in which case we can transfer it for you here in one of our retail stores.  Please feel free to reach out to us for any questions prior to bidding.  MAKE SURE this rifle is legal to possess in your state/jurisdiction BEFORE BIDDING.”

 

 
 

 

[Lewisfan]

I do like the Thompson, it is an American icon. With that said, it is very heavy, it shoots fast (for my taste), it has a heavy trigger pull, and fitting a fresh mag into the magwell is not easy.  We went to war with what we had and its war record speaks for itself.  As with most war weapons, there is a reason when they are phased out of frontline service.  

Now...when I go shooting, everyone wants to shoot the Thompson.

[Rabbit57]

I was able to pick up my Thompson M1 after my father passed and left my brothers and I some money. 
 

I will say the Thompson is heavy, the stock is cut in such a way that it encourages muzzle climb and it shoots fast. But it is a real beast, the sound, the round, it’s just so damn bad-a**! I have never regretted my purchase. If I can have only one machine gun, then a Thompson is my choice!

[Doug Quaid]

This is my take on it, YMMV, etc:

Everyone has their own personal tastes.  Which is fine, of course.  Some people like blood sausage.  More power to them, bon appetite.

Objective truth, on the other hand, is established by measurement.

Suppose you wanted to measure the effectiveness of a warplane, like the P-40 Warhawk.  Is it possible to come up with a better test than to build 13,738 of them and use them every single day in a global war?  That would be the ultimate measurement, wouldn't it?

The result of that ultimate test might be complicated, but there would be trends in the data that are objectively true.  For example, they developed tactics that exploited the strengths of the aircraft.  Those tactics literally evolved from who lived and who died.   

Suppose that a guy named "Stevie" made a youtube video where he said, 'THE P-40 WARHAWK WAS A PIECE OF JUNK!! FLYING ONE WAS A DEATH SENTENCE!!"  Would that video supersede the actual combat record of the plane?

Stevie's statement is so simplistic and so far from being true that you know that Stevie heard it from Timmy, who heard it from Howie. Nobody involved knows the service record of the P-40. or cares.  They just like noise.  

I have observed an explosion of "Stevie Talk" about the Thompson on the internet.  None of the criticism is nuanced, and none of it considers the service record of the gun.  It's clearly just noisy, overblown neckbeard talk.  For example, they know that a 45acp cartridge kicks harder than a 9mm.  So that eventually becomes "THE THOMPSON KICKS LIKE A MULE!!"  

I'm not saying that you are wrong for not liking the Thompson, that's your call.  My remarks are addressing the blatant youtube neckbeard BS explosion.  

Setting aside the youtube BS, if someone owns a Thompson and he says that it's hard to use, or hard to shoot accurately, I would advise giving it more of a chance before selling it.  I shoot a monthly SMG match, and I'm not a whiz kid, I'm pretty average.  And I found the Thompson to be pretty amazing.  

Also, if you don't own a Thompson, you may find yourself surprised by how easy it is to hit targets with. 

This is a good video of a guy just goofing around with a Thompson, you can see the guy is shooting it like a full auto BB gun.  Like I said, I'm no whiz and I could do about as well:
 

 

[Deavis]

I bought the gun, not the story, but wouldn’t mind the story being true.

 

FOIA sent me this:

 

I hope this message finds you well. ATF received your FOIA request, reference number 2025-01546 concerning weapons history for an Auto Ordnance, Model: 1928 A1. Due to privacy concerns your request to ATF requires a certificate of identification. Please use this link (https://www.justice.gov/ust/file/doj361_form.pdf/dl) to the DOJ 361 which needs to be completed, signed and attached to a new request. 
 

I will re-submit.

 

I hope this message finds you well. ATF received your FOIA request, reference number 2025-01546 concerning weapons history for an Auto Ordnance, Model: 1928 A1. Due to privacy concerns your request to ATF requires a certificate of identification. Please use this link (https://www.justice.gov/ust/file/doj361_form.pdf/dl) to the DOJ 361 which needs to be completed, signed and attached to a new request. 

[Doug Quaid]

3 hours ago, Deavis said:

I bought the gun, not the story, but wouldn’t mind the story being true.

 

FOIA sent me this:

 

I hope this message finds you well. ATF received your FOIA request, reference number 2025-01546 concerning weapons history for an Auto Ordnance, Model: 1928 A1. Due to privacy concerns your request to ATF requires a certificate of identification. Please use this link (https://www.justice.gov/ust/file/doj361_form.pdf/dl) to the DOJ 361 which needs to be completed, signed and attached to a new request. 
 

I will re-submit.

 

I hope this message finds you well. ATF received your FOIA request, reference number 2025-01546 concerning weapons history for an Auto Ordnance, Model: 1928 A1. Due to privacy concerns your request to ATF requires a certificate of identification. Please use this link (https://www.justice.gov/ust/file/doj361_form.pdf/dl) to the DOJ 361 which needs to be completed, signed and attached to a new request. 

I hope I didn't seem snotty about the story, I was just goofing around.  I think you paid a fair price for the gun, so you are GTG either way. 

I should explain that I find the fanciful stories that gun sellers tell about guns to be off-putting.  What I want to know is why we gun collectors got stuck with listening to this stuff. If you buy a 1955 Les Paul guitar, you don't have to listen to some story about how it was taken from the hand of a dead german rock star.

To be fair to the seller of your gun, I have found that families who have heirloom guns often genuinely believe the family legend about the gun.  Like that it was carried in combat by granddad.   

I wonder how long FOIA takes these days?  Mine took months.