Odd MP40 at Morphys

[thompsonteenager]

I was looking through Morphy's catalogue for their upcoming auction and noticed this MP40. It has all the early features (despite the hook handle being replaced by schmeisser safety), but it is marked fxo and below 1939. They are saying this could be a year mark, but to my knowledge, the Germans didn't use three-letter factory codes until around 1941, unless my info is bad. Sorry, I have only been religiously researching guns for a few years. The Schmeisser Myth book says that Haenel made MP40s, but it was only during the second generation run of guns, around 1941-1942. Also, "ERB Charles" is listed on the registry as the manufacturer. If this gun were registered as is, wouldn't the manufacturer be listed as Germany?

I just thought this gun would intrigue the minds of the many experts on this board.

 

Thanks, Luke 

Edited April 15 by thompsonteenager

[tommyboy]

I would be very suspect of the 1939 date marking. As pointed out, the “FXO” manufacturer code wasn’t even in use at that time. Plus the gun’s original serial number of 31840 would place it in the later 1940 production range. The 1939 date was most likely added as an “enhancement” when the gun was manufactured by Erb. I say manufactured because I’m not even certain the gun is a rewatt. If it was a rewatt, there would be no reason for Erb to mark his name underneath and create a new serial number. Notice Morphys was also careful not to list the gun as C&R. If it was a rewatt. It would retain its C&R status. Whether or not the gun was actually manufactured by Erb or was just a “paperwork manufacture” is another matter altogether.

Edited April 15 by tommyboy

[TSMGguy]

Lot Detail - (N) EXCEPTIONAL EARLY FLAT HOUSING GERMAN WWII MP-40 MACHINE GUN MARKED "1939" (FULLY TRANSFERABLE).

The MP40 wasn't even adopted until 1940, with no serial production before that year. C. G. Haenel (fxo) made no MP40s before 1941. 

IMHO, somebody did some inadequate research and ended up producing a fantasy piece. This is a parts lash-up with a number of neatly applied but spurious serial numbers. It would probably make a good representative shooter for someone if the price was right.

 

Edited April 19 by TSMGguy

[thompsonteenager]

1 hour ago, TSMGguy said:

Lot Detail - (N) EXCEPTIONAL EARLY FLAT HOUSING GERMAN WWII MP-40 MACHINE GUN MARKED "1939" (FULLY TRANSFERABLE).

The MP40 wasn't even adopted until 1940, with no serial production before that year. C. G. Haenel (fxo) made no MP40s before 1941. 

IMHO, somebody did some inadequate research and ended up producing a fantasy piece. This is a parts lash-up with a number of neatly applied but non original serial numbers. It would probably make a good representative shooter for someone if the price was right.

 

 

2 hours ago, tommyboy said:

I would be very suspect of the 1939 date marking. As pointed out, the “FXO” manufacturer code wasn’t even in use at that time. Plus the gun’s original serial number of 31840 would place it in the later 1940 production range. The 1939 date was most likely added as an “enhancement” when the gun was manufactured by Erb. I say manufactured because I’m not even certain the gun is a rewatt. If it was a rewatt, there would be no reason for Erb to mark his name underneath and create a new serial number. Notice Morphys was also careful not to list the gun as C&R. If it was a rewatt. It would retain its C&R status. Whether or not the gun was actually manufactured by Erb or was just a “paperwork manufacture” is another matter altogether.

I knew this gun was suspicious... Thanks for the info I knew the markings seemed off. I wonder why Morphys didnt catch that. 

[DARIVS]

...not with a 10' pole.  I'd choose another MP-40.

Edited April 15 by DARIVS

[Mad Machinist]

The "extremely desirable" classification by the cataloguer cracked me up.......it's a tube gun...............

Edited 14 hours ago by Mad Machinist

[thompsonteenager]

5 minutes ago, Mad Machinist said:

The "extremely desirable" classification by the cataloguer cracked me up.......it a tube gun...............

To confirm what I knew even MORE I just saw on a different website another MP40 tube registered by the same guy lol. 

[Husker402]

I also noticed that listing last night and it’s definitely “enhanced” with the 1939 date. Too bad, really. Not much collector value but I’ll still try to snag it if the price is right. It would still make a nice shooter.

[StrangeRanger]

It's a tube gun that was cobbled together from more than one donor.  Whether Erb manufactured the receiver or "manufactured" the paperwork we'll never know.  Erb may have intentionally put the impossible date on it as a caveat to possible future buyers; we'll never know that either.  The flat sided mag housing adds a very small value to this one vs. every other tube gun in the Registry. The $25-40K estimated price is pure Scheisse. It probably shouldn't hammer much over $20-22K but someone will ignore the warnings in Morphy's description and overbid accordingly 

Edited April 16 by StrangeRanger

[Got Uzi]

Morphy’s has really dropped the ball with this auction….blew estimates that are WAY low and now coming out guns that are not what they make it seem to be. 

[StrangeRanger]

Morphy's gives an honest description including all the inconsistencies, then tells the bidders to "make your own judgment."  That SHOULD be a huge red flag but....

They then say that it is "absolutely among the most desirable" specimens and list an expected price that is aspirational at best.

It's a nice TUBE gun, nothing more

 

 

[thompsonteenager]

8 hours ago, StrangeRanger said:

Morphy's gives an honest description including all the inconsistencies, then tells the bidders to "make your own judgment."  That SHOULD be a huge red flag but....

They then say that it is "absolutely among the most desirable" specimens and list an expected price that is aspirational at best.

It's a nice TUBE gun, nothing more

 

 

Yep, not good on Murphy's.

Its good for me to research and find these situations out now as one day when I hopefully start buying NFA I know what im looking at so I dont get scammed. 

Edited April 17 by thompsonteenager

[Roland the Thompsongunner]

Most New made receivers are very easy to spot as they are smooth on the inside and the outside profile was machined sort of like an MP38 was made. The original MP40 receivers are ribbed and so is the inside

[StrangeRanger]

Does anyone know how the ID relief grooves in the MP40 tubes were made?  Since they exactly align with the raised sections on the OD I'm guessing that they were drawn in that configuration then cut to length.  The ID grooves alone could have been broached but that would not explain the matching OD raised sections

[Got Uzi]

They were a stamped flat that was rolled. It’s shown in Frank’s book on the MP38/MP40

[Roland the Thompsongunner]

Yes as Got Uzi said stamped out and rolled. No machining on original tube. That is why all the tube guns are easy to spot. 

[Got Uzi]

Something else to realize with these auction houses-they love to be creative with the wording to get people excited who typically don’t have a clue….referring to West Hurley Thompson gun.  Rock Island loves to refer to them as “A prefix serial number guns” and not put the words “West Hurley” in the listing. So unless you know that WH guns all had the letter A at the end, you’d be screwed. 

[RoscoeTurner]

If Erb put that one together in 86 there is no end to the oddities that might pop up.  The shenanigans that went on in the months leading up to the Hughes Amendment going into effect would be worthy of a book.

[TSMGguy]

16 minutes ago, RoscoeTurner said:

If Erb put that one together in 86 there is no end to the oddities that might pop up.  The shenanigans that went on in the months leading up to the Hughes Amendment going into effect would be worthy of a book.

Truly. I've seen some Erb tube MP40s that are really quite nice, being matching parts kits on Erb tubes. They were probably worth adding to any collection, as long as you understood what you had. Then, prices went wild.

[RoscoeTurner]

1 hour ago, TSMGguy said:

Truly. I've seen some Erb tube MP40s that are really quite nice, being matching parts kits on Erb tubes. They were probably worth adding to any collection, as long as you understood what you had. Then, prices went wild.

He did do some good work, no doubt about that.  I have one of his Sten's that I have greatly enjoyed over the years.

[Wandering38]

There is nothing wrong with the tube on this one.   It’s very clearly the original profile stamped metal with corresponding recesses inside & not the ´milled-from-solid-tube type.  No one to my knowledge including erb has made stamped receivers postwar.   So he likely welded a cut original tube and added his info to it.  This was standard practice pre86 by many “builders”… many of these “builders” didn’t even bother to cut the unregistered gun first and just added their data and filed registration paperwork.  The original serial on the side of the tube indicates C block, which dates to very early 1941, and the tube itself is 40 dated from the subcontractor cos, which is correct for the tubes used by Haenel (fxo) during this period.  Some of these smaller parts appear renumbered to match, but the tray serial number is matching & in the factory font.  Some trays during this early period lacked date markings, and I would guess this was one of those with the 1939 added by erb to “correct” the perceived deficiency.    The limited quantity of mg’s in the US, combined with the predominant interest of the community in recreational shooting for many years resulted in a heavy contingent of people who were/are incredibly mechanically gifted and others who were merely affluent, and both groups simultaneously unobservant & mind-blowingly ignorant of historical correctness.  Stupid stuff like this date is case in point.   A great “new made” original gun with a nonsensical date added to fix a problem that didn’t exist.   Class-3tard behavior at its finest.  At the end of the day, it’s not a C&R because the paper says “erb”.  But metallurgically, it’s practically the same.  Anyone who has held an original stamped tube and a new-milled tube side by side can see this.  Just my impressions. fwiw

[Roland the Thompsongunner]

Yes as stated above many were cut and rewelded under the mag housing straps so you can see it from the outside. 

[thompsonteenager]

6 hours ago, Wandering38 said:

There is nothing wrong with the tube on this one.   It’s very clearly the original profile stamped metal with corresponding recesses inside & not the ´milled-from-solid-tube type.  No one to my knowledge including erb has made stamped receivers postwar.   So he likely welded a cut original tube and added his info to it.  This was standard practice pre86 by many “builders”… many of these “builders” didn’t even bother to cut the unregistered gun first and just added their data and filed registration paperwork.  The original serial on the side of the tube indicates C block, which dates to very early 1941, and the tube itself is 40 dated from the subcontractor cos, which is correct for the tubes used by Haenel (fxo) during this period.  Some of these smaller parts appear renumbered to match, but the tray serial number is matching & in the factory font.  Some trays during this early period lacked date markings, and I would guess this was one of those with the 1939 added by erb to “correct” the perceived deficiency.    The limited quantity of mg’s in the US, combined with the predominant interest of the community in recreational shooting for many years resulted in a heavy contingent of people who were/are incredibly mechanically gifted and others who were merely affluent, and both groups simultaneously unobservant & mind-blowingly ignorant of historical correctness.  Stupid stuff like this date is case in point.   A great “new made” original gun with a nonsensical date added to fix a problem that didn’t exist.   Class-3tard behavior at its finest.  At the end of the day, it’s not a C&R because the paper says “erb”.  But metallurgically, it’s practically the same.  Anyone who has held an original stamped tube and a new-milled tube side by side can see this.  Just my impressions. fwiw

Interesting info thank you

[Rekraps]

On 4/15/2026 at 10:20 AM, TSMGguy said:

Lot Detail - (N) EXCEPTIONAL EARLY FLAT HOUSING GERMAN WWII MP-40 MACHINE GUN MARKED "1939" (FULLY TRANSFERABLE).

The MP40 wasn't even adopted until 1940, with no serial production before that year. C. G. Haenel (fxo) made no MP40s before 1941. 

IMHO, somebody did some inadequate research and ended up producing a fantasy piece. This is a parts lash-up with a number of neatly applied but spurious serial numbers. It would probably make a good representative shooter for someone if the price was right.

 

My observations align with yours.  Good post. 

[Mad Machinist]

On 4/15/2026 at 8:02 PM, thompsonteenager said:

To confirm what I knew even MORE I just saw on a different website another MP40 tube registered by the same guy lol. 

Charlie built some real nice guns.....have seen and shot a few......recently sat a 1917 Marlin "potato Digger" with is builder info.....If i had the bucks I'd pick it up

Edited April 25 by Mad Machinist