John Thedford Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Thanks to everyone for their posts. Bill D--I thought about the definition of market value. I intended to post it this morning but you did so first. Some of the statements made by AF in this thread were amusing to me. I wished he had taken me up on my offer for the name of the warehouse where I buy all these guns substantially below wholesale:) BTW Bill--how did the vidoe/pics come out from KC. Sure was a good time there. Bought a genuine for real no kidding absolutely original C&R Lanchester while I was there along with a fake,copyright infringing, replica fraudulent WH Thompson. When it comes in I will have enough respect for my Colt not to store them in the same safe:) It has been fun gentlemen--and I shall stick around! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
full auto 45 Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Was at the Indy 1500 yesterday. Friend bought a VERY nice WWII M1 Bridgeport gun,660xxx- I can't recall the last 3, as nice or better then the one I have for those who have seen mine. I looked it over twice before telling him buy it. Asking price was $15k, I didn't get the final price but it was lower. Now I need to find a WH shooter for another friend. No WH guns at the show at all. At least F/A guns. He will be a TCA member very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
October1971 Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Another "Good ole days" story: The same partner who went in with me to buy the 5 Colt TSMGs came to me a few months later and said: "Bill, we can buy the last 20 reconditioned MG42's from a major importer. And if we buy all 20, they are only $300 each, or a total of $6000." Well 31 years ago I had just started an independent insurance agency and didn't have much money. I told him, "Mike that's crazy! How are we going to get rid of TWENTY MG42s??!!" I didn't go into partnership with him on that crazy idea, he borrowed the other $3000 from hic uncle, and...the rest is history! I'm feeling guilty afte saying how valuable the West Hurleys are and I haven't kept one in my collection. I better run out and buy one to uphold my reputation. I just hate the thought of paying $20,000 for one though. LOL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Bill, Interesting posts. I always like to hear from people who have genuine experience in a given area. I am sure others feel the same. My comment about the military Thompsons plummeting in value with a change in the law is based on what I perceive would be the importation of these Thompsons from sources outside the U.S.A. Given the number of Thompson part kits now coming into this country, it appears that a goodly number of WW II type Thompsons still exist and could flood the market in short order if importation was legal. And to me - that would be a good thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 QUOTE If Hurleys sell for 15 to 16K, then that would place the Savage/AO M1/M1A1 group in the upper teens and low twenties, Totally anecodatal evidence of course but I know of 4 Bridgeport M1's that have sold in the last 6 months (including Mike's friends) for 15k or less. I'm happy to know that my WH 28 has goine up 30% since I took posession in January 05 and the M1 I have pending has goine up 25% in 2 months. While some guns go SPF in a matter of days, others sit for weeks, months. Irrational exuberance counts for some of these prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 WOW so much info "the mind boggle's" the thing 1951. wink! weeee-ow!! bill a ins. agency??? started one in 1973 sold in 1993.......funny huh?? anyhow all good point's to ponder.the thompson wes-hurlee's and other's have come a long way!! and so have the oldster's around here,it mostly has always been fun...the show's the shoot's, the wheelin and dealin...and of course the history of it all... i'm sure the general on his death bed when he wrote his final testimony to arm's....and the 1921 thompson did not have as much glee and happiness as the way we talk about them...however different time's..as we look at them{thompson's} in a different manner.kinda like the guy who collect's s.s.memorabilia..........he doe's not care who had it or how much or any meaning behind it...all he know's is he want's it!! and some people like the wes-hurlee's, colt,and savage and a.o.model's,and the history behind them... and make a few buck's to boot. i'm not sure as "phil say's" its all relative. unless you have a relative who has a cheap colt for sale.wink! glad bill is on the board and john also...it help's the mix. met both of the gentleman,and hopefully they can add to the fun of the board... it's history,and fun....the buck's enter into it later...way later... take care,ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildwilly2002 Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 WH Thompson a replica my ass. Wh,colt,or savage are all thompsons.Granted most whs need some work to bring them up to spec but once done they look and shoot great! Really sick of these so called pedagree owners bashing these guns. Payed 6800 for my gun four yrs ago. It has all savage internals and looks brand new. IT shoots great as well! Its market value has risen at about the same rate as the so called "real guns"as far as I can tell. And guess what 99% of the people who have ever seen or shot my gun don't know the differance. Is my uzi a replica because it was put togeather by vector? I think not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 wildwilly2002, Why does the word "replica," the accurate descriptive word for WH's, offend your sensibilities? The fact that 99% of the people who have seen or shot your WH do not know the difference, while undoubtedly true, does not deter from the well documented fact the WH is a facsimile of a Thompson. Ignorance may sometimes be advantageous, comforting and uncomplicated, and while it may not be venal, it is always a catalyst for polemics. Of course Numrich/Trast counted on perspective buyers being oblivious to their charade when they came out with their version in 1975, but the market already pigeonholed the WH long ago as a replica as indicated by the prices they fetch in comparison to pre 1945 bona fide Thompson's. Even the C&R WH's follow this dictum despite the added marketability with the C&R status. It seems nobody cared about the "replica" or "facsimile" appellation for the WH until several years ago when NFA firearms fever consumed the internet, gun shows, gun boards, what have you. While you can gut the internals of a WH and replace them with WWII parts that will undoubtedly improve the fit and function of the firearm, it doesn't change the fact that the Numrich/Trast version of the Thompson is what it is. As far as your "Uzi" being a replica that would depend on whether Vector was licensed to produce the firearm using the Uzi name. Naturally, when ever this topic comes up the motivations of the heretics like myself are considered snobs, WH basher's, Colt whores, putrid purists protesters, and general nuisances. I'm sure there are many more colorful metaphors that immediately pop into mind aimed at those who merely concur with the research of famed acknowledged Thompson smg authorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 really all this krap on thompson's has started in the last five year's...value's,big buck profit...wanna colt sickness... really think about it guy's.....$35,000.00 for just wood and metal that sold for $500.00 a mere 35 year's ago. because of a piece of paper to own,by the gov. that most of us never shoot...ask the current{not mega rich} current buying owner of one...at that price......$35,00.00>did you take it to the range and plow 5,000 rounds of reload 45acp through it.and let five bud's and gal's finger it,break it down.jam drum's in it..and cock it dry twenty time's to show them the smooth action??? probably not!! heck some i know who bought a nice colt for $5,000.00 don't..and they told me why, i can get $30,000.00 for this baby, now ron!! are you nut's?? mark it or fire it. i'd lose money, stupid remark when the paid $5,000.00 for it originally............if they sold it for $10,000.00 they made out.. should now all colt owner's sell for $10,000.00>thats left up to them...however the T.G.factor come's into play human nature! so they oil it.watch combat or capone,read the manual's.look at the tool's and accs.the thompson sickness.. and wish they had a few more..vicious circle or cycle! i purchased my first 21a colt for $900.00 and it currently sold for something like $12,000.00 in az..from earl's deceased collection. a 70% shooter beater.> i heard since restored did i ever wish i kept my first, sure i do...but i needed a 1975 ford pinto to get to work at the time.{ya think a original would sell for that today??} car and gun now both gone. life is really too short to argue over this is a thompson a colt or savage.and a wes-hurlee is junk unless you rebuild it... guess what, once you are dead...who freakin care's...any family will sell it for what they get...your supposed gun buddie's will pick over your stuff like you never existed.and flock like buzzard's over a dead carcass and give the widow and kid's everything you paid....yeah sure!!sarchasm now! and if you leave it to the kid's. once a baby or two,or new home,or car or boat come around.pappa's gun's bye-bye.. heck how in the heck do you think we got all this stuff already.....bought it from dead people,zombie's wink!! and if just if...the gov. decides to step in later...and say no more.. everybody will wish they had some gold, silver,diamond's mo-money.....euro's, greenback's........... or maybe the trusty .45 colt. to blow their freakin brain's out with..when they say: what the freak did i do...i lost it all.........for what some metal and wood.and now they banned it all. some say it will never happen.some say watch out. remember 1968 i do...and 1986,and everything in between..have fun.don't argue...you may not have much time...tick,tick,tick, and to those who can't let it drop..because they own the best!! it all can be removed in a instant.we are mortal.. only in the movie's we can live forever.until ted turner decide's not to restore them!wink!! gotcha! take care,ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandShooter Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Arty Flem, You pompas ass. You can't let other guns rise in value as your Colt's do that's all that is happening. I'll tell you what sell, no, trade me two class3 unfired Thompson's. Never mind the brand . And my 5 are yours. Just want to do some shooting. Remember with 2 Class 3 unfired Thompson's, you get 3 semi autos all the same serial number . Now PUT UP OR SHUT UP. Comparing oranges to tangelos will get you nothing. C'mon Arty make me a reasonable offer here on the boards or STFU. Bill OUT Hell yea I've had a few LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandShooter Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 PS Arty I want blue 28 style with vertical foregrip,ribbed barrel and cutts compensator. Tit for Tat. That's what i want not some parkerized side cocker I've got an M-11 that does that great. Bill Out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
full auto 45 Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Arty..don't you own a West Hurley? If I remember right, you do. Or at least you said you did. I do. Hell I would buy a couple more to put in the safe, take out on week-ends and shoot. Hey, it's not worth owning if you can't play with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 I'm with you Mike. I'll make a standing offer of 11.5k for any West Hurley in reasonable shape that I can put in my safe and shoot on weekends. Non-consecutive serial numbers are not an issue. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
full auto 45 Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Damn, got me by $1500! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Mike, Yeah, I have a WH 28. But I knew when I bought it that it was a replica of a Thompson. It seems that word is a huge hang up for some. That the WH has hitched a ride on the current NFA market rocket is secondary to the even more important and relevant factor that is the cache the WH derives from the Thompson name. This distinction might not have been much of a consideration for anyone, other than those interested in the inside baseball of the TSMG, when they sold for under $2K, but at $15K, I think it is subterfuge for dealers to deny this fact, even if they don't go out of their way to advertise it. But as long as buyers are paying the same money for a WH that is also almost equivalent to a WWII TSMG, then I figure, as wildwilly2002 stated in his post, that 99% of these buyers do not know the difference. It is one thing not to know the difference and it is totally another to not care once they are made aware of the difference. If they know the difference and still don't care and pay $16k, $17K or whatever, then I would not hold any caveats about the surge in WH prices. Again I am pleasantly surprised to see Autoweapons.com state in their add for a $16.9K WH28 that it is a replica of a TSMG. Now when this eventually sells for this figure, and assuming the buyer is aware of the fact he bought a replica, then the WH would stand on its own merits or demerits. Of course all NFA items should be primarily esteemed for their intrinsic value as a live ammo firing weapon. Does shooting a WH hurt the value? I don't see how it could since parts are easily replaced and the finish can only be better reproduced. No matter how you slice it, if you bought a NFA weapon since the 1990's but certainly since the millennium, you paid what most Americans would consider a considerable amount of money. If you feel queasy about shooting it because you have a lot of actual funds tied up in the weapon than that is only normal. But as Ron pointed out, if you have owned the weapon long before the current craze, then what are you out if you continue to shoot it? ClevelandShooter, You are already to sell the WH collection? I figured you or John Thedford would have been chomping at the bit to make an offer on Ron's WH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandShooter Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 No arty, my question to you is sell me two transferable Thompson 28's , blued with vertical stocks, ribbed barrels and cutts compensator's for what I have in 2 transferable Thompson's and 3 Title 1 Guns for the same amount. It's simple, and as i said Put Up Or shut up. Please enlighten a novice like me how I could get more bang for my buck???? You always dodge the question. How convenient Bill Out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Jr Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Don't get your panties in a wad over AF, he is like the village idiot of Thompsons on here. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
must Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 THOMPSONS, THEY ARE ALL THOMPSONS BUT MADE IN DIFFERENT LOCATIONS. SOME WHERE MADE IN HARTFORD, CONN., SOME IN BRIDGEPORT, CONN., SOME IN WEST HURLEY, NEW YORK ( JUSTED MANUFACTURED IN DIFFERENT DECADES OF TIME). I LIKE THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRENT FROM UTAH. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/cool.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 i must admit after reading all of this.......it's almost better then the spare part's kit storie's...and we have ,young,old,informed,not informed chiming in on all of it... and sorry to say nobody has bought that m1a1 wes-hurley tommy...maybe i can shoot the heck out of it,put a few mark's on it,not clean it and ask.....$13,000.00 shipped..funny thing the last three that are advertised now are all at $15,000.00............way above this one..that just go's to show you talk is cheap,and alot of people do that alway's... when it's time to cut that big check they get the cold sweat's and itchy hand's.. it will sell.......they alway's do...i have been converted!! and have seen the light.. maybe i should not throw in any spare part's and alot of mag's...and be like everybody else. one mag"and no soup for you" wink!! have fun guy's please no bad remark's.... people who own any kind of thompson are supposed to be a "step above" take care,ron p.s. i think a mp-40 owner once told me that, or maybe it was a fg-42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45wheelgun Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 I find it interesting that the price of WH seems to be out pacing the price of WWII guns. Just saw a M1 selling for 16.5k. Hummm seems the public and the consumer has spoken about these "replicas". Their prices are rising faster then the WWII guns....soon to be catching the colts. Several years ago there was a 25-33% difference between a WWII gun and a WH. That gap seems to have closed quite a bit. Considering my rate of return for owning a WH was 28.6% a year for 8 years, I did better with it then had I purchased a WWII gun. Not only that, but side cocking guns are for pussys who can't crank it from the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Jr Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 QUOTE (45wheelgun @ Oct 31 2005, 05:55 AM) Not only that, but side cocking guns are for pussys who can't crank it from the top. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunrunner Posted October 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 I have nothing against West Hurley's and that was not the intent of my original post. I am new to Thompson’s, within the last year and wound up with two. My reason for selling the West Hurley was nothing more than needing the cash for a DLO/Andrewski Sterling MK4 and to take some cash off the table. I shoot my C&R Savage 28 Thompson and love every minute of it. I personally think the Hurley guns will continue to climb in value and will regret not keeping both. Their are few people that can spend 20K for a toy / hobby and even less that can spend 40K for toy/hobby. To me that is where the Hurley's have the advantage, for now. Any machinrgun owner should be proud of there collection / investment, they are just like land and there will be no more. We are also a very unique, privileged and small class of people. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/cool.gif gunrunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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