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one tugh sob i have doubt- that said i have read about durning but read he was at malmady in his own words- i have read he was ranger but those killed at malmedy were artillery/forward observers,not rangers. a lot gets repeated and thought to be true but isn't. i mean there were only supposedly 3 survivors, 2 later died and a 3rd testfied at trial and his name wasn't durning. there however many acts massacre at that time elsewhere durning may have escaped from other than at malmedy
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Even that crusty old curmudgeon from 60 Minutes, Andy Rooney, occupies an interesting footnote in history. As a young reporter for Stars and Stripes, he was along on the first US daylight raid into Germany, conducted by B-17s of the 306th Bomb Group in January, 1943. From the book First Over Germany, A History of the 306th Bombardmant Group, by Russel A. Strong, Hunter Publishing Company, 1982.
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Ouch!!!!!!!
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QUOTE (Junkyardslug @ Jan 31 2006, 10:35 AM)
I read in a book I have that John Wayne made a USO apperance in the pacific and the Marines Booed him off stage.

JYS

Those sort of reports make Lee Ermey's idolization of Wayne so bizarre. Of course Wayne didn't make "Sands" until 1949, maybe that is when the Marines gave him a pass?

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QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Jan 31 2006, 12:37 PM)
Wayne was a terrible actor, and all his lines sound like he was reading them, but he got the message out, and I think his heart was in the right place.

Did pretty good for a terrible actor..... holds the record for most leading parts, around 150 I believe, in movies.... Good thing you weren't a voting member fo The Academy, he would have never gotten his Oscar..... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif

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QUOTE (Arthur Fliegenheimer @ Jan 25 2006, 11:38 AM)
It is perplexing why Lee Ermy, a Vietnam veteran,  considers Wayne his ultimate warrior idol.

Maybe we see something in John Wayne that your myopic world can not perceive.

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I always thought it was funny that JW would make war movies, Then he was against the war in Vietnam. And against the Presidents for having our boys there. Then he makes a movie like "The Green Berets". Go figure.
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QUOTE (calibre @ Jan 31 2006, 05:29 PM)
QUOTE (Arthur Fliegenheimer @ Jan 25 2006, 11:38 AM)
It is perplexing why Lee Ermy, a Vietnam veteran,  considers Wayne his ultimate warrior idol.

Maybe we see something in John Wayne that your myopic world can not perceive.

Whose we? Marines? Veterans? Or just those who are beguiled by cinema magic as opposed to real life exploits. Since you no doubt sat in the first row when your hereo's first run pics played, perhaps it is your vision that suffers from myopia.

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QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Jan 31 2006, 12:37 PM)
I Wayne was a terrible actor, and all his lines sound like he was reading them, but he got the message out, and I think his heart was in the right place.

Yeah, maybe so, Phil...but he wasn't much of a singer, either...I've got his LP "America: Why I Love Her" (1972, I think), and boy...does the Duke ever butcher a song! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

Rob

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QUOTE (OldFalGuy @ Jan 31 2006, 01:42 AM)
one tugh sob i have doubt- that said i have read about durning but read he was at malmady in his own words- i have read he was ranger but those killed at malmedy were artillery/forward observers,not rangers. a lot gets repeated and thought to be true but isn't. i mean there were only supposedly 3 survivors, 2 later died and a 3rd testfied at trial and his name wasn't durning. there however many acts massacre at that time elsewhere durning may have escaped from other than at malmedy

Yeah, that was my thoughts, too...after doing much research, I found the majority of the data to reflect that there were as many as 17 to 21 survivors of the Malmedy Massacre (actually, the Baugnez Crossroads, or "5 Points" as known to the Americans), and I suppose Durning could have been one...but, it's a well known fact that Lt. Col. Jochen Peiper's SS-Kampfgruppe Peiper was responsible for many atrocities during the early days of the Bulge...perhaps Durning is a survivor of one of those incidents...and the soldier who testified at the Dachau Trials was one Kenneth Ahrens, shot twice in the back...

Rob

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QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Jan 31 2006, 01:37 PM)
QUOTE (Z3BigDaddy @ Jan 31 2006, 01:05 PM)
QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Jan 31 2006, 12:37 PM)
Wayne was a terrible actor, and all  his lines sound like he was reading them, but he got the message out, and I think his heart was in the right place.

Did pretty good for a terrible actor..... holds the record for most leading parts, around 150 I believe, in movies.... Good thing you weren't a voting member fo The Academy, he would have never gotten his Oscar..... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif

Trolling for *_____s here is so much fun. That's partially why I tossed out those first two phrases. I saw Z3 online here as I was typing. I got a bite even before the keys cooled down.

 

(On the other side of the coin, John Wayne was not at all such a great actor, and we all know how the Oscar awards thing goes, and how and why parts are awarded. Wayne was a good guy, and marketable, and a good American. He may have had shortcomings, but so do all of us. Oops! I mean, except for Z3.)

 

Z3, your cage is so easily rattled. I can usually predict a reaction, but not precisely how you will try to frame it. You're just such a thinking, probing guy, full of surprises. Baiting you now and then is a lot of laughs. You try so hard, to find something to attack, grasping for straws. I thought this last one would be simple and straight forward, making your drab day a little bit more fun. It was a slam dunk. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif

 

I've got to say, you're improving...becoming just ever so slightly more articulate...less crude in your style...trying very hard to sound reasonable and rational. Keep working on it.

 

 

*I started out to be a little cruel, and then thought, like Dick Nixon, "But that would be wrong." http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif

Not easily rattled really, I just can't stand the flow of misinformation being slung around here.... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/nono.gif I just try to get out the facts and let people decide for themselves..... And if some people look like a moron in the process... so be it. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/buttkick.gif

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Off topic, OK....

 

If you want to get into politics, I'll say that Ronald Reagan was our best president.

 

Now the question is, would you be satisfied with a low life political piece of garbage like Kerry being in office?

 

The problem is ignorant LIBERALS like you have forgotten what President Bush said immediately after 9/11, that it's going to be a long fight, etc...

 

What other problems do you have with Mr. Bush?

 

Grow up and get educated!!! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/cop.gif

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Back to John Wayne (bringing this back to an earlier hijack?) and R Lee, and I am just thinking here, but I am pretty sure there are two R. Lee Ermey:

 

1) Staff Sgt R. Lee Ermey fought and was wounded in Vietnam, went to study acting on the GI bill, and has made a career out of playing mostly tough guys. He has 98 films to his credit: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000388/ , including Saving Silverman where he kisses another man on the lips.

 

2) 'Gunny Sgt' R. Lee Ermey who is a characterization of some of his roles (most notably Sgt Hartman of Full Metal Jacket). 'Gunny' Ermey is balls to the wall, over the top, no excuses, never say die, and is right out of an old 'Sgt. Rock' Comic book (and I mean one of the silly ones where they fight the Nazi dinosaurs). In other words the 'Gunny' we see is on Mail call

 

Now before I get flamed, I am not saying R. Lee is not a patriotic, gun lovin', tough as nails SOB, whom I would not want to meet in a dark alley if he didn't like me BUT which R. Lee said that John Wayne was the ultimate warrior Idle? And which John Wayne was he talking about? John Wayne the man or the Characters John Wayne played?

 

JYS

Edited by Junkyardslug
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Ghost your right, Peiper did a lot of no-nos in that general area and it is shameful he wasn't executed.

 

I should have reviewed my post, I meant that Durning WAS a tough sob-period whether he was involved in, on or near a massacre sorta doesn't matter.

The germans caught a lot of small groups near the bulge who couldn't do diddly against thier tanks but run and in the snow they didn't get far nor did they have any way of handling 100's of pow's- still no reason to massacre them- pity that payback in kind only makes us look bad in the history books.

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Alright everyone, not to bring this back from the dead, but I looked up the John Wayne Booing incident. This is from 'The Censored War, American Visual Experience During WWII' by George H. Roeder, jr on Pg 102 if anyone wants to follow along in their copies;

 

"Soldiers were the toughest audience. The Marine Veteran William Manchester [Manchester, who was wounded in the knee on Guadalcanal, was the author of Death of a President and The Arms of Krupp]remembered 'John Wayne being booed in a Hawaiian hospital by an audience of wounded Marines from Iwo Jima and Okinawa, Men who had had macho acts, in a phrase of the day, up their asses to their armpits.' Manchester also reported that after seeing an advertisement in an American magazine that jauntily declared 'Who's afraid of the bid Focke-Wulf', pilots at one base wrote 'We are' and 'Followed it with the signature of every airman there, including the commanding officer, and mailed it to the sponsoring firm."

 

JYS

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When you get right down to the nut cutting Phil is right-

 

I enjoyed John Wayne's flick's, Hope never entered my radar screen- not my kinda entertainment but back then that was about all that was on the old B&W tube.

 

But I will sure as heck admit it would mean a lot to have Wayne's Thompson if one existed-

Don't care about one owned by Hope at all-wouldn't be worth a premium to me like Wayne's.

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Now Steve McQeen's Colt TSMG would be the bomb! An ex-Marine (tank driver at Camp Pendleton), his Colt was a 1927 AC "Navy," one of two known to exist.

 

Even though Wayne's "Green Berets" was the only Hollywood movie about Vietnam during the war, it is so embarrassingly constructed as if Wayne thought time stood still in 1942.

 

Aside from the Hope/Crosby road movies, Bob made his real money in real estate. His career in the 1960's sputtered out and the only way he could keep his face in the public eye was to continue to do the USO tours and Christmas specials. As long as he brought with him, during different periods, Rita Hayworth, Cyd Charisse, Gloria Graham, Rachel Welch, Joey Heatherton, Ann Margret, and various Playmates, the troops endured the Hope hackneyed hokey hijinks.

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So, I look at the original topic of this thread, and now we're flaming Bob "What Do I Have To Do With This" Hope? Geez, guys.

 

I conducted for Bob, as my Dad did before me (Me: 1972. Dad: 1952). Very nice guy. He was to the point, get it done, very sincere thanks at the end, and in private quiet. He wasn't Audie Murphy; he was Bob Hope. A showbiz guy, start to finish.

 

OK, fire away. What the heck, I don't even own a Thompson!

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