She's Coming To Get You!

[Bruce L]

 

October 11, 2003

For Immediate Release

 

Contact: ATF PIO Vera Fedorak (313) 418-4951

MSP F/Lt. William Elliott (231) 779-6040

 

 

 

Mesick Man Arrested on Federal Indictment for

Machineguns and Drug Possession

 

Cadillac- Michigan. Special Agent in Charge Valerie J. Goddard of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), Detroit Field Division announces the arrest of Norman David Somerville, a 43-year-old resident of Mesick, Michigan.

 

Mr. Somerville was arrested on Friday afternoon, October 10, 2003, on a three-count federal indictment for unlawful possession of machineguns, being an unlawful user of marijuana in possession of semiautomatic military assault rifles and the attempted manufacture of marijuana.

 

Mr. Somerville appeared in federal court in Grand Rapids and was ordered detained without bond pending a detention hearing on Wednesday, October 15, 2003.

 

"….Mr. Somerville is an armed and dangerous man and should be detained for the safety of the community and because he will not respect the authority of the Court," said federal prosecutors at the hearing.

 

The grand jury is meeting in secret in Grand Rapids and is conducting a wide-ranging investigation. Authorities have sealed the facts of the investigation.

 

"A federal judge found probable cause to search Mr. Somerville's 40-acre property and seize any unlawful firearms, ammunition, machineguns, explosives, destructive devices and marijuana," said Agent Goddard.

 

"The ATF, the Michigan State Police (MSP) and the Wexford County Sheriff's Department conducted significant planning and preparation to arrest Mr. Somerville without incident," said Agent Goddard. "Patience pays; we were willing to wait for Mr. Somerville to leave the property in order to ensure his safety, the safety of our agents, officers and the community."

 

"ATF's top mission is reducing violent crime. There is no sporting purpose for manufacturing or possessing machineguns and destructive devices. These banned guns are machines designed for only one purpose: to kill people," said Goddard. "We will ensure the safety of the community by investigating and prosecuting those intent on possessing machineguns and explosives" she stressed.

 

 

ATF is working jointly with the MSP Cadillac Post, the MSP Bomb Squad, the MSP Field Detective Division, the Wexford County Sheriff's Department, as well as an Emergency Response Team (ERT) comprised of officers from neighboring jurisdictions.

 

"The complexity of this case and the types or weapons we expected to encounter caused us great concern," stated F/Lt. William Elliott of the MSP Cadillac Post. "This is a prime example of law enforcement agencies at all levels pooling our resources and information together to ensure the safety of the public and the agents and officers working these dangerous scenes."

 

 

###

 

 

 

 

[Pa Deuce]

http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/mad.gif

I agree with Bruce L; although we should take this to the Rantings and Ravings section. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Bruce V 21/28]

We, The Governed, are letting our "servants" become our "rulers".

[Walter63a]

It reminds me of "Witchfinder General Mathew Hopkins" ferretting out all those dangerous witches in 'merry old England' or the Salem witch trials! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/unsure.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/sad.gif At least in our 'enlightened age', if you are not mistakenly killed (Randy Weaver's family and dog) or burned to a crisp (Waco), merely for possessing contraband, one can sue the Federal Government and win. The last I heard each of us law-abiding tax payers is contributing to Randy Weaver's multi-million dollar retirement fund, thanks to the 'professionalism' of some very sorry excuses for federal agents. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/sad.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/cool.gif Regards, Walter

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

David Koresh, The Turner Diaries not withstanding, was responsible for the immolation of himself and his followers. Gerry Spence, Randy Weaver's attorney, is the one who actually made the FBI snipers look worse than the white supremacist Weaver.

[Walter63a]

The only thing the feds could get Randy Weaver on was a trumped-up (they entrapped him) charge of making a sawed-off shotgun. That, along with the fact that federal agents mistakenly killed his dog, son and wife is why he only served three years in jail and why we (American taxpayers) are paying him millions of dollars. He admitted that he he made a mistake in producing said sawed-off shotgun, after repeatedly being pestered by federal agents to make one (he needed the money). Not to defend his beliefs, but it is not a crime to have unpopular beliefs. I have heard federal agents, interviewed on national television (face and voice obscurred), admit that, at the very least, the Waco situation could have been handled better. One federal agent admitted that federal agents used incendiary ammunition, while attacking the Koresh compound (knowing that women and children lived there). Also, it is well known that D.E.L.T.A. Force was consulted. So, at the very least, it is a moot point (one which could be debated endlessly), until the Federal Government makes more evidence available, whether David Koresh or the Federal Government was responsible for their immolation.

[hawksnest]

Arthur: I thought like you until I met Mr. Weaver in person. Mr. Weaver claims he is a white separatist not a white supremacist. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/huh.gif I suggest you buy a copy of his book "The Federal Siege at Ruby Ridge" by Randy & Sara Weaver. If only 1/4 of the book is true it is a tragedy that should have been avoided. The book quotes extensively from the various investigations and the Senate hearings. Weaver reports that Lon Horiuchi, the federal sniper, was indicted by the state of Idaho for manslaughter, but on May 14 1998, the federal government played the "Federal Supremacy clause" trump card and the state charge was dismissed. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif

[Gunner]

So, is being a "white separatist" ok? Yikes! (I'm afraid of the response I'm going to get, but, even though I'm a middle-aged white boy, I can't stop myself from pressing the issue.)

[Walter63a]

Hawksnest is absolutely right. When the State of Idaho sought to resume the murder case against agent Horiuchi, by appealing in a Federal Appeals Court, Federal Solicitor General Seth Waxman argued that, "as a fundamental function of our government" law enforcement agents are "privileged to do what would otherwise be unlawful if done by a private citizen." And that is where the case stands. If that doesn't send chills up and down your spine, perhaps one should check to see if one is still respirating. Maybe the Honorable Mr. Waxman thinks we live in Nazi Germany or Stalin's Soviet Union. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/sad.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/unsure.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/cool.gif

[Walter63a]

Gunner, although I'm not an expert, a 'white supremacist' would be the equivalent of a NAZI, where a 'white seperatist' is someone who believes in keeping the white race 'pure' by not intermarrying (not having children) with persons from other races and living, ideally, in a separate homeland. I am a history teacher, so such knowledge interests me. A black equivalent, as near as I can tell, would be people involved in the Nation of Islam. I hope this helps you to understand. Regards, Walter

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

The feds gave all persons living inside Koresh's compound ample opportunity to leave. They decided to stay to the bitter end. Blame the idiotic parents of these dead children for putting them in the situation to begin with. Just because people can procreate does not automatically imbue them with parenting skills, unfortunately.

 

The fact that the FBI screwed the pooch when they killed the poor dog, wife and child of Weaver, does not make Randy Weaver a hero or a person to be admired whether he likes to be known as a supremacist, or a seperatists. Society is full of antisocial types like the Unibomber, George Lincoln Rockwell, Farhakhan, and to a certain degree, Weaver.

 

The national socialsts (aka Nazis) also believed in keeping the white race pure. Intermarriage was verboten. Of course we all know were their ideology ended, which was the same place the train tracks ended; inside the camps with the tall chimneys.

[bigred]

I think the point is not whether it is ok, but rather, the subject is whether America is a Nation that allows someone to hold onto personal beliefs. Question: Does the government have a constitutional right to attack aka "protecting the public" individuals who hold different viewpoints than the government?

Has our country become a nation where all we can think is what the government says we can think? If is has than it's time for another Civil War.

Already our rights have been trampled over and over again while the majority of citizens sit back oblivious to the fact that their liberties are being taken away. Where in the writing of the founding fathers or in the constitution does it or anything say that a person must register a cut off shotgun? That is the main issue.

Civil Liberties promised to citizens of the US by those who founded it are being trampled by men who re-interpret the constitution to fit their Unitary views.

Not only is the Government regularly breaking the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, and 10th Amendments but they constantly rape and destroy the 2nd Amendment like it doesn't exist. All because gun owners do not speak out against it.

Well that felt good getting off some steam. Before you know it I'll be chanting NRA NRA!! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Another Civil War? Sure. Who wouldn't want another Antietnam, Gettysburg, or Shiloh? If having idiotic views were a crime in the U.S. then the prisons would be filled with those who post their myopic views on their websites on the net. The idea that, "citizens sit back oblivious to the fact that their liberties are being taken away," seems a strange statement considering it would be difficult to not notice the essential everyday freedoms of free speech, trial by jury, self incrimination, unreasonable search & seizure, warants, etc. The funny thing about the American Patriot Act is that those on the far left and far right come together in their abhorrence of the possibility of abuse from this policy. Imagine the ACLU and John Birch hand in hand petitioning the supreme court. The second amendment is alive and well as evidenced by the swelling numbers of participants on this board who possess legal automatic weapons. It has just become a states issue as to how to regulate firearms. Moronic employees of ATF, FBI etc do not make laws; they only enforce them.

[Walter63a]

Arthur, I agree with you that certain people (probably more than we realize) should not reproduce (drug addicts, severely mentally handicapped,etc). However, certainly we do not want to return to the bad old days, here in the U.S., when involuntary sterilizations and lobotomies were not uncommon (1920's-1940's), let alone what happened in Nazi Germany. Let's not even go there. What I am referring to, in the main, is the increasingly heavy-handed way our Federal Government seems to deal with its citizens, where the Bill of Rights is concerned. Bigred understands, as I believe most members of this board do. I think somewhere along the line we moved away from: government of the people, by the people, and for the people. The concept has been corrupted, since the Civil War, especially in the Twentieth Century. Regards, Walter

 

P.S. From what I've read of Randy Weaver's 'white separatism', it seems it tries to distinguish itself from National Socialism by its declared belief in living separately and in peace with its neighbors. Again, I am not defending his beliefs, merely his right under our republic's laws (First Ammendment To The U.S. Constitution), to have them and to express them.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Walter,

You mean when the South susseded from the Union back in 1861 because they felt that since the authors of the Constitution did not see fit to include blacks as citizens with voting rights, but rather only property, that they didn't either. And they didn't see how, or why, the federal government should stick it's nose in their affairs? It is not so easy for a government to be by the people and for the people when a portion of "the people" did not share these same guarantees. I am not sure how the Civil War corrupted our system of government? Of course the South's answer to Reconstruction were Jim Crowe Laws. This was the same system so favored by the Randy Weaver types; seperate, but equal.

[LIONHART]

Can't respond too much now, but I have to say, David Koresh and his followers were MURDERED in their CHURCH, and then DEMONIZED in the media. O'h hell, more later!...

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Koresh wanted martydom and he got it. He went the Jim Jones way, as so many of these types with Messiah conmplexes do. If you want to have a shoot out with the feds, or cops, like the SLA did in S.F., you will lose. Koresh only prayed to the Barrett .50 caliber. When that failed him, he put the torch to the gasoline. How his name became synonymous with a Thomas Payne, or Ben Franklin, or Martin Luther, shows how the power of hysteria can elevate a common con man to a standard bearer for governmental persecution.

[Walter63a]

Arthur, if you had read my previous posts on the old board, you would know that I support the 13th., 14th.,and 15th. Amendments to the U.S. Constitution. Let's remember that this board is about firearms. I am primarily writing about the Supreme Court's reinterpretations, attempted reinterpretations and (I and many others believe) misinterpretations of the Second Amendnent to the Constitution. I am also referring to legislation which has watered down the Second Ammendment. For example, the 1934 NFA Act, the 1968 Crime laws, the 1986 Crime Bill and the 1994 Crime Bill.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Walter,

Well, what does the Civil War have to do with the second ammendment then? I must have missed something.

[Walter63a]

Arthur, during the Civil War, president Lincoln suspended the Writ of Habeas Corpus (due process was suspended when throwing citizens into prison, often for long periods,without being charged, for the first time in U.S. history). He instituted a draft. Lincoln also assumed dictatorial powers, never delegated to the President. This, I and many other conservatives believe,' opened the floodgates' for everyone with an ax to grind to attack, dillute and otherwise desecrate the U.S. Constitution by (essentially) taking power away from the states and greatly increasing the powers of the Federal Government. This has played out for the last 140 years, leading to draconian gun laws, drafting people into the Vietnam Conflict (a very unpopular War which threatened to tear this nation apart in the late 1960's and early 1970's), Ruby Ridge and Waco, to name a few problems. Regards, Walter

 

P.S. As I am not writing a book, this will have to suffice.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Walter,

The country was in a state of emergency in 1861. Many people volunteered for military service in the North, and one could even pay for a surrogate to take their place in the military. Jefferson Davis, who ostensibly was fighting the central federal government in Washington D.C., also implemented a draft in the South. Would you prefer a divided country today? What draconian gun laws are you referring to? I ask this because most people on this board are machine gun owners. Contract rights, though protected specifically in the Constitution, are not fundamental rights. There are no due process or equal protection grounds for suit which would be favorably considered by a court. Most conservatives, like myself, revere Lincoln. Who are these conservatives that you speak of who hold this Republican in such disrepute?

[Walter63a]

Yes, Arthur, many people did volunteer, early in the Civil War, which most thought would be short. As the war dragged on and hundreds of thousands died, people reassessed their priorities (especially in the North). Surely, Arthur you remember reading of the draft riots in New York City (mobs attacked and lynched many negroes from lamp posts in Manhattan). They did not think it was worth dying to free slaves and many could not afford the $300.00 needed to purchase a surrogate. No, I would not prefer a divided nation. I simply make the observation, as many have, that the nature of the relationship between the Federal Government and the various governments of the states was profoundly changed by the Civil War and its aftermath. Indeed, the relationship between the Federal Government and the people had changed profoundly and for the most part, regarding the individual rights enshrined in the Bill of Rights, not for the better. The Founding Fathers (Geoge Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Benjamin Franklin and many others) feared that individual human rights could be easily trampled by a government which became too powerful and tyrannical. I fear that this nation has been moving steadily in that direction, ever since the Civil War. Yes, I too revere Lincoln as one of our greatest Presidents, but that does not negate the fact that some of the things he did during the Civil War took this nation on a totally different path from the one it was on. However , on the contrary, Arthur, I do not denigrate Lincoln's memory. I believe that had he lived, he would not have allowed the the South to be punished as severely as the Republican North did, in fact, punish the South, immediately following the Civil War. As a result, the South would not have been as resentful and the tragic decades of 'Jim Crow' laws might not have been as severe, nor of such a lengthy duration. As a result, a 'strong' Federal Government, at the expense of 'states rights' and individual freedoms may not have developed.

[bigred]

ok, well first, these conservatives have no problem with Lincoln's character, but with the way he put the President in a more powerful role than was ever precedent. Most conservatives who study history and who actually support a less powerful central Governement must acknowledge that what Lincoln did was a major move to the modern state of the Union. Lincoln, Wilson, FDR, JFK, Johnson, and Clinton were all Presidents who greatly increased the power of the central government to totally control our lives.

 

Several times you have made mention of some on the board owning machine guns. What you may be unaware of is the huge amount of red tape and other bureaucratic BS that these guys have to go through to own those machine guns.

 

The only way a person could think that the idea of paying the Gov't hundreds of dollars just for the license or registration to own a gun is ok - is if they grew up without being taught the morals and values of the Constitution and the beliefs of the founding fathers. If you read the letters between the authors of the Costitution you will find that the 2nd Amendment specifically is about the individual's right to personally own a weapon without that right being infringed.

 

It was an arguement that should have been brought up when cities starting banning guns http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/mad.gif , and it is now being brought up when Liberals who think guns cause crime try to control those who own guns. Well friends, Thankfully at the moment, they are loosing this fight. We got Missiouri now we just have to get her courts. Then Ohio, Then Kansas. It a true statement that an armed society is a free society.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

bigred,

You have got to be kidding. All the bureaucratic red tape to own a class III weapon? I gladly pay the $200 and send in a form with scant information to ATF to own machine guns. I think it is a good idea that they are regulated in this way. The only price that has not gone up since 1934 is the cost of a tax stamp for a class III transfer. There are no morals or values as written in the Constitution. The values and morals are in the Declaration of Independence. If you study history honestly without an ideological bent, then you do not gauge perceived errosion of personal freedoms through the prisim of a single issue. Who is denying your right to own a firearm? If your state does not allow for class III ownership then your beef is with your legislature, not the federal government.

 

You also failed to mention that it is Bush 43 who signed the Patriot Act into law. Talk about more federal government control, wow!

[Gunner]

Well put, Arthur. (May I call you "Dutch"?)