colt21a Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 DUH! it would be great if i'd look at all the pic's.. Randall you mean the rough swirl marks on the right hand side on the ejection port opening???yep i see those somebody went there with a surface grinder or something....why i don't know why......nice gun tho no matter who worked on it...thanks for the input big R. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photonance Posted September 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2007 Thanks guys for the input, it is facinating the history behind these guns. I have learned more about Thompsons in the past year and a half, than in my whole life, alot of it due to you guys on this board, and people like Doug Richardson, Tracie Hill, Gordon Herigstad, and others taking the time to talk with me personally. I am going to try my best to educate others, and keep the history going. As for my gun, I have mainly looked at the ejection port area and thought that it just didn't quite look right. I will take it to a machine shop sometime and see what they say about it. Tanks! Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted September 30, 2007 Report Share Posted September 30, 2007 Rob oil it and think of dad.nothing wrong with the gun......and nobody should ever knock it..it's all here about keeping the history alive, and not so much about the $$$......................i've been preaching that for years... my Grandfather made a BOWIE style while serving on the big "E' in the second...i'd never think of selling it. even tho i've had offer's.since many knife makers had never seen nothing like it.it's History! good luck in whatever you do. and hang around. we try, and can be as pleasant as all get out. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photonance Posted September 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2007 As for my gun, I have mainly looked at the ejection port area and thought that it just didn't quite look right. I will take it to a machine shop sometime and see what they say about it. That would be my advice, Rob. It is still a nice weapon and it is priceless as far as sentimental value. I would guess that you always think of your dad when you shoot it. And really, that is what this is all about. FWIW, whenever I see a Ford 9N tractor I think of my grandpa!!!! It really is what is dear to us, not others opinions of our "stuff"!!!!! You are absolutely right about thinking of my dad. Even though he mainly collected and built flintlock, Kentucky, and Pennsyvania rifles, I associate the Thompsons with him the most. BTW, with my dad, I think of the John Deer 430. I had never noticed the warping on the mag well before, nice observation, and it is only on the ejection port side. You may be right, it may have been damaged during the barrel plugging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photonance Posted September 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2007 Rob oil it and think of dad.nothing wrong with the gun......and nobody should ever knock it..it's all here about keeping the history alive, and not so much about the $$$......................i've been preaching that for years... my Grandfather made a BOWIE style while serving on the big "E' in the second...i'd never think of selling it. even tho i've had offer's.since many knife makers had never seen nothing like it.it's History! good luck in whatever you do. and hang around. we try, and can be as pleasant as all get out. Ron I agree, I could care less about what the gun is worth, although that is a nice plus. It will be very much enjoyed, and I will share the history (and shooting!)with others. I have enjoyed sharing information with you guys, and yes I will be hanging around! Hopefully I can make it up to The Creek either this spring or next fall and meet some of you guys. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photonance Posted October 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 (edited) Yep, those swirl marks. Those are pretty rough. Also, here is the pic that shows the "warping" of the ejection port about 1/3 of the way from the front of the mag well opening. Mag well deformation They look like from a Brown and Sharp surface grinder. You used to be able to find them in almost every shop around here. My educated "guess" is that the ejection port may have been damaged when they plugged the barrel. One would need to take many dimensions off of the receiver to see if the front and rear line up. That would be one of the best preliminary ways to do a comparative analysis of the receiver. Also, if you have a machine shop close by, have them put the receiver under a comparator. This is a serious magnifier that can show whether the there is surface distortion or and slight mismatch between front and rear. FWIW, the weapon looks extremly nice other than the lack of finish. I really would just oil it and shoot it. When it starts to malfunction because of barrel wear is when I would do the "overhaul." Enjoy that great piece of history. And....thanks to your dad for having the foresight to save our heritage!!! I found an interesting photo of an ad on Sturm that looks like another gun with a warped mag well. Take a look and see if it looks similar to my mag well. This gun may have been done the same way. Has anyone else seen this on WWII Savage or AO 28's? Rob http://i22.tinypic.com/1zn8lu8.jpg Edited October 5, 2007 by photonance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
full auto 45 Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 BTW I would love to own a 1928 that looked that good!! http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale.cgi?read=95562 http://i22.tinypic.com/1zn8lu8.jpg Step right up and get your very own. Is it 20k or $18.5 as it says in the photo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireMerc Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 (edited) "Is it 20k or $18.5 as it says in the photo?" Nothing like a dealer that's too lazy to take the price tag off from when he bought it... <_> Edited October 6, 2007 by FireMerc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reconbob Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 This is a very interesting study. The surface finish "swirl" marks that Hardrede points out are (in my opinion) the markings that you get from blanchard grinding. These markings are found on the sides and top of WWII military Thompsons. I agree that these markings do look a little coarse. If the gun was welded, somebody took the trouble to skim the surfaces with a blanchard grinder. Note: The radial "swirl" pattern is the mark of blanchard type grinding. If the grinding marks are linear, that is the mark of surface grinding. The difference is the part of the wheel (the side vs. the edge) that contacts the surface. I am refering to grinding done on machines as opposed to hand grinding. I think the real indicator on this would be to see the INSIDE or the UNDERSIDE of the areas believed to be welded. That is where it would be almost impossible to duplicate the original machining marks. This gun was worked on so long ago, at the time Thompsons did not have the extreme value they have today and I wonder if someone would have taken the trouble to spend so much time and effort on it? Anyway, it looks like a nice gun. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photonance Posted October 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 If you guys would like, I could take some close-up pictures underneath those areas of interest. Just let me know and I will take those in a day or two and post them. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reconbob Posted October 7, 2007 Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 Yes, by all means turn the receiver bottom-up and take some close ups so we can see what there is to see! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photonance Posted October 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 Yes, by all means turn the receiver bottom-up and take some close ups so we can see what there is to see! Bob Will do! I'll be out of town till tomorrow, I will post them when I get back. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photonance Posted October 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 Here are some underside images. I hope these links work, I had trouble with the original post. Anyway, more thoughts? Opinions? Rob http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x234/ph...nt=DSC_0001.jpg http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x234/ph...nt=DSC_0005.jpg http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x234/ph...nt=DSC_0004.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda4 Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 From those pics I would conclude those are all original machining marks. Just my opinion..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 had a original m1a1 same swirl marks. two owner gun the gov. and myself.does not look bad at all in fact looks fairly normal.heck have you ever seen a cyq p-38 late war..and the sides of the rails and the lower frames? i would not let swirl's bother me,and the finish looks correct..heck we can get as bad as "Garand collectors" on this stuff. Wink! i like Garands also. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reconbob Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Thanks for posting the photos. I agree that these views indicate that the gun was not rewelded and that the reactvation was just a barrel change. Note on the swirl marks/blanchard grinding: There is nothing wrong with them and they are characteristic of many gun parts. Its a fast, economical way in a production environment to get a flat, square surface to set up on for future machining. Somebody mentioned P-38's - thats a good example. A modern example would be the FN FAL which has the disctive marks on the flat side of the receiver. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photonance Posted October 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 (edited) Thanks a bunch for all your input, I thought you guys would enjoy examining this gun. I was looking at my M1A1, and the swirls are pretty prominent on it as well. I know it's not a huge deal with as few Thompsons as are still around, but I do prefer a non welded gun. I have looked and examined my gun so much it made my eyes hurt. BTW, Ron, my Garand is ALMOST my favorite gun, what a fun gun to shoot. Everytime I shoot it, or the Thompson, I think about the GI's in WW2, and how they had some great firepower! Rob Edited October 10, 2007 by photonance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 Thanks a bunch for all your input, I thought you guys would enjoy examining this gun. I was looking at my M1A1, and the swirls are pretty prominent on it as well. I know it's not a huge deal with as few Thompsons as are still around, but I do prefer a non welded gun. I have looked and examined my gun so much it made my eyes hurt. BTW, Ron, my Garand is ALMOST my favorite gun, what a fun gun to shoot. Everytime I shoot it, or the Thompson, I think about the GI's in WW2, and how they had some great firepower! Rob ROB i know what you mean. working ona deal now for a M1D and M1C { one with u.s.m.c. history now}and going to buy both.once i get it all worked out. { since the party doe's not want to sell either one!}arm twisting. threat's, crazy offers! you have a nice Thompson be proud...you already have kept the history alive. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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