Jamming Tommy

[TD.]

zultar,

This certainly appears to be a troublesome Thompson. I would bet who ever you purchased it from had the same problems. Generally speaking, Thompsons with a "NAC" suffix after the serial number, especially with a matching lower, are not Numrich parts guns. However, when dealing with anything NAC, anything is possible. Of course, all NAC products were generally priced at the low end of the market years ago so it was not like Numrich Arms was trying to rip anyone off.

 

I have a real problem with the finish on your Thompson and the blued barrel. It almost appears as if someone already tried a barrel replacement - and it did not work. If the fins are rounded and smooth and the blue finish is excellent, you may have a Doug Richardson barrel. This is simply a new GI M1 Thompson barrel Doug has cut fins in, polished and blued. These barrels look and work great.

 

I would do a Freedom of Information Act request on this Thompson to possibly learn more about the history of your gun. Search the board on FOIA or Freedom of Information for more detail on this. The FAQ section, above, has a sample letter. I will be glad to help you sort through the package you receive from ATF. Contact me through the Board.

 

As for your current problem, I suggest contacting PK or Paul Krough. Explain the problem, tell him about this thread on the board, and ask him how soon he could examine your Thompson and tell you what the problem(s) is/are. If you do not want a complete overhaul, re-finish, etc., it may be that Paul can do the fix in a reasonably short time.

 

The machine gun ban made all registered Thompsons worth a lot of money. I would consider this Thompson an appreciating family asset and get it fixed - right. Then you can have a lot fun watching your investment grow while pulling the trigger.

 

Good luck.

[FireMerc]

TD.,

 

I understand how the Numrich Prefix and Suffix gun's fit into the Thompson lineage. My question is zultar's s/n appears to be rollstamped all the others that I have seen are hand stamped.

 

Being that zultar's is a Suffix it should have a hand stamped (NAC) when it was imported, etc. it appears to be roll stamped with the rest of the lettering.

 

What am I missing?

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q304/class3nfa/NACSAVAGE-4.jpg

 

Also if this Thompson appears to have a S/N of S-53XXX why does it have a Bridgeport address not a N.Y.?

 

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q304/class3nfa/NACSAVAGE-6_edited-2.jpg

Edited January 19, 2008 by FireMerc

[michael]

I have a thompson that was causing a similar mark on the shell casings as well. I went through the same process... new recoil spring, switching bolt, etc. Finnally got on PK's waiting list.

 

Now the gun is currenlty with PK. His explanation was ------ "The biggest problem I see is the receiver has been crushed, as witnessed by the tight bolt and subsequent measurements. It is not severe and quite correctable. This alone could have accounted for the misfires as friction slows the bolt to a point of inadequate momentum required to chamber & fire the cartridge. If this is combined with a bad chamber (yet to be determined), it is a guarantee of malfunction."

 

 

Of course this was my gun, but as I said it was making the same mark on the brass.

 

Luckily my turn has finally come and my gun is in his current batch of 28's. :woot:

 

Also just got my M1 back, PK's new barrel looks great! Also fixed few other issues.

 

Michael

 

 

 

[TSMGguy]

Zultar, all of this is why you want to send the gun off to PK. He can spot and correct problems that all of those other Thompson "experts" will miss. Think about what you want your gun to be on its return to you. He can work magic when it comes to restoring the original finish. A parked gun is not original, and can hide serious flaws, including having been in a house fire.

[TD.]

FireMerc,

Those are excellent observations. Of course, a picture showing the complete serial number would certainly help. I do not like the stain in the finish around the serial number area. I went back and looked at the picture of the serial number on the lower and believe it too has this same staining problem. If this Thompson does have a S-53XXX serial number, it did not leave Savage plant with a Bridgeport address. My guess is it left the Numrich Arms Company "plant" in the early 1950's, probably destined to some police department.

 

I don't know about the markings being roll-marked. I would have to see this Thompson up close before I could comment on that - but I see your point. However, I do believe some "handy work" has been done in the serial number area of the receiver and lower frame. I bet this Thompson was parkerized long after it left Numrich Arms Company.

 

zultar,

Contact PK. and get this Thompson diagnosed. Sometimes professional help is necessary; I believe this may be one of those times. I strongly suggest you follow my advice and request a Freedom of Information Act search by ATF on your Thompson. If you want to contact me through the board, I will assist you. The cost from ATF is usually free. I have some experience looking at the redacted paperwork you will receive as it applies to NAC Thompsons. Perhaps we can both learn a thing or two about your Thompson.

[zultar]

Thanks guys for all the help, this may be the only helpful forum I have been on!!! I have spoke to PK, he is almost certain it is my chamber. A problem he said is very common with the NAC. He said if that is the only problem he could knock it out in a few hours. Stated it could be a barrel problem as well, but he doubts. I'm shipping it off Monday. I'll keep ya'll informed of to what he finds.

 

As for the stain, maybe PK has an idea as well, but I will explore the FOIA option. I spoke with the prior owner. He said he never fired it and he was selling it for a friend who had felony problems and had to dump his collection. He said that guy never fired it and he also thought it has never been fired (at least since it was parkerized, whenever that was).

 

While I have some of your attentions, I am looking for a good M2 carbine and a BM59 for sale. So if anyone hears of one for sale give me a buzz.

 

j hays

[zultar]

How long has PK had your gun?

 

 

I have a thompson that was causing a similar mark on the shell casings as well. I went through the same process... new recoil spring, switching bolt, etc. Finnally got on PK's waiting list.

 

Now the gun is currenlty with PK. His explanation was ------ "The biggest problem I see is the receiver has been crushed, as witnessed by the tight bolt and subsequent measurements. It is not severe and quite correctable. This alone could have accounted for the misfires as friction slows the bolt to a point of inadequate momentum required to chamber & fire the cartridge. If this is combined with a bad chamber (yet to be determined), it is a guarantee of malfunction."

 

 

Of course this was my gun, but as I said it was making the same mark on the brass.

 

Luckily my turn has finally come and my gun is in his current batch of 28's. :woot:

 

Also just got my M1 back, PK's new barrel looks great! Also fixed few other issues.

 

Michael

 

[PK.]

I want to go on the record here and hopefully avoid any misunderstandings. NOBODY jumps the queue in my shop (except for my farmer friend Ted; when his tractor brakes I fix it, but that’s another story).

 

I have deep respect for those who have waited so patiently for service and don’t take my responsibility to them lightly. That said, I reserve the right to use a little common sense.

 

If a major operation has come to a close and left a half an hour at the end of the day, I may slip in a simple job, like a barrel replacement or such. This just makes sense for everyone.

 

I did not tell Zultar that I would give him a ‘few hours’- not gonna happen. IF the problem is what I suspect, it can be quickly corrected under the circumstances described above or, I have been known to do one occasionally over the lunch hour. I explained if it was more than this, I would either have to return his gun to him un-repaired or place him into the queue.

 

It is not pleasant to me that I cannot respond more quickly. However, knowing that those who do wait are satisfied at the end is the greatest reward, and I won’t trade that for speed.

 

I want to help, I am happy to help, I do the best I can.

 

With deepest gratitude to all those I have worked with over the years, and to you who are currently enduring the wait.

 

[zultar]

Sorry PK, That's all I was meaning was ...IF what you think is the problem (and I hope it is) then it (the actual time to work on it) would be few hours of labor. As in it may be a quick fix. I was not impling I would jump the queue and I am sorry my statement was infered that way. Whether my gun is gone for weeks-months-year, that is to be seen. I am just happy that I got a guestimate of a common, easier fix then 'oh, your screwed', which would also imply a cheaper fix.

[michael]

How long has PK had your gun?

 

 

No longer then other various machine gun guru's have had some of my other guns.

 

 

My emails are always returned promptly and the service and work has been excellent. Now that these guns are worth so much, I think it is par for the course.

 

Just like certain car restoration experts, painting restoration experts, etc are sought after and have much backlogged work, I think good niche or speacilty gun smiths are the same way...

 

I don't mean to be vague, but I think PK should quote his own times and it sounds like you all have already worked something out.

 

In the end your gun will work and you will be happy long term.

Edited January 22, 2008 by michael

[reconbob]

As you continue your journey with this Thompson one area of interest is the

discolored area below the area that has the model and serial number. It is

obvious in the photo. Something has been done to the receiver to cause this.

There are several parkerizing processes and some of them will "take" a

different color depending on the amount of carbon in the underlying steel.

The fact that the finish is uneven in color (and perhaps consistency but I can't

tell from the photo) means that the underlying steel is also not uniform.

The most likely cause would be a weld, but I don't know why this would be

welded at this spot. Perhaps PK could weigh in on this as he certainly would

know what to look for.

 

Bob