Early H&r M14

[leid]

Hi guys,

Here is a nice 1959 contract H&R. This is an uncut original U. S. M14 rifle documented to have been part of the H&R factory auction in the mid '80s. I was first issued an M14 in ROTC during the early '70s and never got over it. Finally got an original U.S. M14 rifle that I don't have to give back.

Carey

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a72/leid/M14right.jpg

[froster]

Yes, it's nice looking. Is it original or a reweld? Can anyone find out how many M14s are legally privately held in the US? In Texas or other states, can you hunt with this gun if you take off the appropriate parts? Do I recall correctly that FAs can be taken hunting in Alabama? Is this gun used much or cnsidered too precious? In Canada from 87 through 91 there was quite a bit of hunting with SA "converted" M14s and a lot of plinking at the clubs as well as some competitions.

Isn't it a shame that the designers couldn't make a proper bayonet for them with a muzzle ring system like the FN L1 has? I noticed that the M14 bayonets got damaged from firing.

[leid]

froster,

Original post edited with more details.

We are going to have to buy Frank"s book to get the facts on transferable M14s. A lot of people think there are only a couple dozen original M14 rifles in the registry. But I think there are a hundred or more original transferable M14 rifles with all the DOE, different museum sales, law enforcement, and amnesty registered rifles.

The general rule is no hunting of "game" with a machine gun. ATF has ruled that an M14 is a machine gun even if modified to SA only.

Carey

[TSMGguy]

That's one good looking rifle! Thanks for posting the picture.

Froster, just looking at the situation, I can't see how the M14 bayonet could be damaged by firing only. The bottom of the GI flash supressor (right term?) is solid and gasses from firing seem to be vented to the top and sides. I have read that one of the most common problems with the M14 was supressors coming out of alignment to the point that the bullet hit the supressor on firing. I wonder if this loss of alignment was from damage that happened during bayonet drills?

I remember that there was a tool for installing the supressor on the proper axis, which was basically a steel cylinder milled to the correct dimensions of both the bore and the inside of the supressor. I guess, since the tool exists, that it would be possible to install the supressor off axis without it.

M14s used to appear regularly at our local gun clubs in the 1980s and early 90s. I never thought to ask how they had been obtained. I had the privilege of shooting a full match with one of these. All of the ones that I saw had the button on the side characteristic of the semi auto rifles. I haven't seen one in awhile, and I think that these might have been possibly on loan from the US Government to our local club.

My first exposure to the M14 came in college ROTC in the early 1970s. They were complete, but we had no magazines and we never fired them. The M1s had been retired only the year before I got there.

I recently placed an order with http://www.fredsm14stocks.com. It showed up on my door step on Friday. It's a really beautiful original walnut H&R "presentation grade" stock, in unused condition, and it has lots of nice tiger stripes. Like the books say, the stain originally used was very dark, almost black. Now I have to decide whether to leave it as is, or strip and refinish to bring out the markings in the wood. The stock is very heavy and dense, really a premium piece of wood. They included a bonus, an excellent condition original slotted M14 handguard, at no charge. I sure have to recommend Fred's to all. The literature that he sends along with each order is a breath of fresh air, too.

[froster]

The problem with firing an M14 type rifle with the bayonet fixed is that the ring has no recess for it on the suppressor, as there is on a British FAL, for instance. I got a surplus bayonet and examination showed the blade to be worn and dulled before refinishing and the ring was loose and quite eroded where the gases had hit it after coming out the slots. It had five rough areas.. A big oversight on the part of the arsenal designers. On two rifles of the type which I had I had the insides of the suppressors reamed out tapered.

[TSMGguy]

QUOTE (froster @ Aug 30 2005, 07:35 PM)

The problem with firing an M14 type rifle with the bayonet fixed is that the ring has no recess for it on the suppressor, as there is on a British FAL, for instance.  I got a surplus bayonet and examination showed the blade to be worn and dulled before refinishing  and the ring was loose and quite eroded where the gases had hit it after coming out the slots.  It had five rough areas..  A big oversight on the part of the arsenal designers.  On two rifles of the type which  I had I had the insides of the suppressors reamed out tapered.

It was not general practice in US service to fire the M14 rifle extensively with the bayonet attached as it compromised the otherwise excellent balance of the rifle. The bayonet was considered a last ditch option only.

Your bayonet was likely never in US service, or if it was, it was sold surplus and abused elsewhere. It would require tremendous abuse to cause an original GI bayonet's guard to loosen.

None or very little of the hot gases from firing would ever contact the blade or grip of a mounted M14 bayonet, as the bottom of a USGI flash supressor is solid and has no vent.

I've only installed one GI M14 supressor onto a GI M14 barrel, but as I recall there was very little chance of making a mistake or misaligning things. It would only go on one way, the right way, with no play, looseness, or alignment problems. It was forged, of very high quality, and rang like a bell when fired.

Don't get me wrong, the FAL is a beautiful design (I own two), but the trigger and general ergonomics are poor. It's truly a most excellent infantry weapon, even one of the finest in history, but it is no tool for a rifleman.