shadowman
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Posts posted by shadowman
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Greetings,
Just wanted to post an update and close out this thread-- my Colt Thompson 1921AC, purchased
from a board member, arrived at my dealer today. It's a beautiful gun, and likely will be the centerpiece
of my collection for a long time (I've attached a few photos for those interested).
Also, thanks for all who contacted me/provided input along the way... Even if I didn't buy your gun, all input was helpful,
and I wish you every success finding the transaction you desire, going forward.
"SM"
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Thanks for the info-- hadn't seen that thread before.
Given the gun's pedigree, I'll probably just keep looking for now.
Thanks,
SM
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I've thought about getting a C&R license for a few years now, primarily for ease of interstate
movement of C&R Machineguns that I own. As has been pointed out, the price isn't
terribly much (e.g., for anyone who has the free capital to purchase pretty much any
transferrable MG). An added benefit would be direct purchase of C&R "Title 1" guns, and
perhaps the occasional MG if I found one in my state (not very often).
However... after looking into it a bit, I became concerned about some "cons" to becoming a C&R licensee. From
what I can read online, the following appears to be true:
- You have to record (bound book) anything you acquire with your C&R license <and>
- You have to record any gun you dispose of while the license is in effect: this includes the
C&R guns you already owned, and also, any trades (e.g., trades with other collectors, family gifts).
- Any theft or loss must be reported to the ATF within 48 hrs of discovery... failure to do so
is punishable as a felony (!) [this is per ATF Frm 3310.11]
- ATF can, potentially, visit once per year to inspect your collection and verify compliance with
the law (I realize this is rare for C&R licensees, but IMO should still be a consideration)
- A C&R license won't let you transport a later M16, tube gun, MAC-10, etc., any differently than
right now
After considering the facts I could look up, I just decided to sit tight, at least for now. The real holdup for
me was the possibility of unknowingly running afoul of some ATF "Licensee regulations"-- any $$$'s I might
save with a C&R license would be pretty small in comparison to the cost of dealing with the Feds... :-/
My $0.02...
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I'm still in the market for for a Colt 1921 Thompson... would be interested in opinions on the following gun:
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/forums/index.php?/topic/17065-wts-colt-thompson-1921ac-1921-sn-5697/
Refinished, but looks like it could make a good "shooter" Colt, and IMO the price
seems fair enough for this market.
Other suggestions?
Thanks,
SM
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Thanks for posting -- definitely a nice package...
But there are soooo many choices in this market... :^)
Decisions, decisions...
SM
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My $0.02 -
This gun has been listed on GB for a while, and all I can figure is that the
broker (or the owner) thinks they can get a $40K premium (over the current market)
for the "...rare chance to own a fully transferable unfired from factory..."
Either they don't understand how Thompsons are priced, or more likely, looking
for a buyer who doesn't understand how Thompsons are priced (*also, with more
$money than sense...).
SM
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Thanks to all who have contacted me thus far-- I've answered all the PM's sent to me
at present.
The "Golden Gun" (link above) is interesting, and no doubt a nice gun for the price; but for
now, I think I'm looking for something with the more traditional / original finish.
SM
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Greetings all,
I already own an M1928A1 & M1 Thompson, and I've been thinking about adding an
"original" Colt model for a few years.
As most are aware, there seem to be way more of these for sale on the open market
than there were even just a few years ago, and at (generally) less expensive prices. One
reason for this appears to be a lot of former police guns that have recently been sold to
collectors/dealers.
So anyway, seems to be more of a "buyer's market" right now and possibly a good time
to pick one up; thus my post. A few more details about what I'd like to find...
- Original 1921A or 1921AC configuration preferred (given I already own a 1928 WW2 model)
- Condition/Price - I don't have a strict "hard" limit, although let me be clear I'm not looking
for a $100K gun... and probably, under $50K in this market (based on numerous offerings
I've seen). E.g.,, even Reuben has a 1921AC not moving at ~$31K: https://dealernfa.com/shop/7244-1921/
- I already own the Tom Davis guide (among other Thompson reference books)
OK, that's all I can think of for now.
Thanks in advance for everyone's suggestions,
"SM"
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Congrats!!! very nice M1 and friends!! btw when was your check cashed?? Thx Vin
Thanks everyone for all the positive comments.
The specific timeline on this transfer:
8 / 14 / 2017 - Form 4 signed; mailed the next day
8 / 22 / 2017 - Check ($200) for X-fer fee clears
3 / 08 / 2018 - Form 4 approved by NFA examiner
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Greetings,
Got my "new" (to me) M1 Thompson out of NFA jail yesterday, and thought I'd share
a few pics with the group. [For those interested, the Form 4 transfer time was right
at 7 months.]
With the new trust rules settling out, thinking about what I might purchase next in
the NFA world... I've toyed with getting an M1921, although something like an
M3 "Grease gun" would go better with my WW2 theme...
Not in any big hurry, and what I finally decide will most likely be influenced by what's
available...
SM
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I just saw this, others may have seen it already--
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article202486304.html
In a nutshell:
- The Florida shooter (Cruz) apparently used 10-rd AR mags (not "high capacity")
- He stopped shooting when his gun jammed, as he (apparently) didn't know how to
clear it
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** NOTE: This post was edited by one of the moderators, to remove references to a another
member's post that has been deleted. **
The "antis" are far more knowledgeable about gun control schemes than I will ever be...
nothing I posted here is news to any serious gun-control politician (Schumer, Feinstein, etc.),
or their staffers; and much of it already exists in one or more states right now. And then
their are the schemes in other countries (Britain, Australia, etc.) that they really drool
over.
I only hope to inform some in the pro-gun community of how potentially precarious our position
is, and in turn, be educated a bit myself... many here have been in the 2A fight far longer
than I have. And -- given the $$$'s I've spent in obtaining a legal / registered FA collection, trying
to understand the potential legal risks just makes sense.
"Know your enemy" and "Don't kill the messenger"
Sandman1957 said:
My concern is that bump stocks will ultimately bring scrutiny to the NFA community. We saw how
fast we got thrown under the bus before, and to think we are out of the woods is shortsighted.
If you want to go Full Auto, get a tax stamp. The risk that these types of devices will continue to
get used inappropriately is enormous. I am more concerned with protecting the NFA community.
100% agree with what you've said here.
A lot of these young killers don't really know much about guns in a technical sense. They're
not interested in a gun's history, operating principles, etc.-- they just see a gun as a means
to kill and gain themselves an infamous notoriety. For example, Holmes [Aurora, CO, 2012
shooting] stopped firing when his rifle jammed and he had no idea how to clear it...
So, much of what these shooters do know is "copycatted" out of the news... and now that bump stocks
have been given a high profile [Las Vegas shooting], I'm also worried the dam could break on criminal
misuse of these devices-- to the detriment of us all.
Not saying they have to be banned, maybe controlled like a firearm; maybe get fingerprints taken
and pay for a stamp (AOW or other). Etc.
I was similarly shocked on the back and forth with the SB tactical arm braces.
ATF basically gave up and said do what you want its all legal now
I was a little surprised with this myself, and probably would not have built some of my SBR's (legally
registered Form 1 guns) if I had any idea that so-called "arm braces" would stay legal.
Importation of AK-47 rifles was banned in 1989, but you can still get a Draco pistol straight from
Romania and put an arm brace on it with no special fees or paperwork... go figure.
SM
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The rest of that nonsense you listed, pretty much just makes gun ownership
more of a pain for the law abiding, and won't do much (if anything for "safety")
Thanks for your reply.
So I'm 100% clear-- I didn't say that I thought these restrictions should happen, or
that I thought these were good ideas. Rather, just that most of these things
are being done right now in one (or more) states, and could plausibly be
coming to the entire U.S. in the next decade.
And yes, decreasing gun ownership among the law-abiding has been a goal
of the left for some time now, I'd say at least since the GCA '68. What they can't
get with an outright ban, they'll get through environmental regulations (think lead),
mandatory gun safety insurance requirements (forgot to put that on the list), etc.
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Greetings,
Given the recent events in Florida and the way that gun control is back in the national spotlight,
wanted to see what some of the forum members thought the most likely path forward for gun
control in the U.S. might be.
The point of my post is not so much academic & constitutional arguments, as we all know that given
enough time, politicians & judges can stretch the meaning of the 2nd amendment whatever way
they think is convenient at the time (and even SCOTUS decisions can be limited/reversed by
later, more liberal, courts).
So the main point here is "being pragmatic"; or, "best buy it now if you really want it"... doesn't look to me
like the status quo will hold indefinitely... I am particularly interested to hear what those with experience think on
this topic...
With that as a background, here's my list of 'gun control ideas' that are mentioned often enough, in a rough order of
what I think is more likely to what's less likely, at least in the near/mid term.
- Machine gun registry stays closed. 99%+ certain this is the case now and for the foreseeable future.
- "Bump stocks" (and similar) banned. It appears there's a rule change on these already in the works,
and IMO there'll likely be legislation banning these, probably even if there is a regulatory change.
So-- what happens to the existing 'bump stocks'? will they be registered in some way, or something else?
- Magazine capacity ban (ala under the "AWB" from '94-'04). Presumably "pre-ban" mags remain
grandfathered, as I don't think the courts would allow outright government seizure quite yet.
I also would assume that links are treated similarly (no new sales to civilians)
- Semi-auto rifle / detachable mag ban. Recall the last assault weapon "ban" was a bit of a joke, as
functionally identical AR-15 semi autos were easily made ban compliant by removing bayonet
lugs, substituting a muzzle brake for the flash hider, etc., etc. I suspect that gun control proponents
will have learned from that, and fear that any future semiauto bans will be quite a bit stricter / not so easily
circumvented.
- Move existing 'military style' semi-autos onto the NFA registry (or similar). This was briefly discussed
by the usual suspects after the Newtown shooting, but didn't go anywhere.
- Raise the age limit for buying rifles to 21 yo. A fairly new idea, to my knowledge, apparently aimed
at some of these younger criminals/shooters. Support for this seems lukewarm from most quarters.
- Increase the NFA transfer tax. Given that transfers have cost $200 since the beginning, this is an
area that seems ripe for a change; just lucky that legally-owned NFA items are almost never used
in crimes, and stay out of the news by and large.
- Require ammunition sales to go through an FFL. Many younger firearms enthusiasts forget that
this was the law of the land from '68 to '86, and still gets mentioned from time-to-time. Already a law
in the state of California, I believe (possibly others). Not a high priority at the national level, yet, but
might be part of an 'omnibus' gun control law.
- In conjunction with the above, ammo storage limits. E.g., no more than 1,000 rds in one location
without a so-called 'arsenal license' or similar. This type of law would be aimed at those who've
stockpiled ammunition, and the idea got some level of discussion in the 90's, although it never got
enough support to be passed.
- Re-emergence of a national "waiting period," as initially was the case under the "Brady Bill". Could apply
to all guns, probably as part of a broader gun-control bill. I believe numerous states already have
waiting periods for various types of firearms (e.g., California, Illinois, etc.).
- "1 gun per month" type limits. I believe this is already law in California, and is obstensibly aimed
at dealing in illegal guns.
- Gun owner licensing +/- 'mental competency' checks. I believe some states (Illinois) already require a "firearms
owner ID" card. Not a high priority at present; but, given all the discussion currently around mental health,
this form of gun control could move into the spotlight.
- Handgun registration / licensing. This was the focus of gun-control efforts in the 70's, I believe, but
overshadowed today with the focus on semiautomatic rifles (aka, 'assault weapons' in the general media).
Seems relatively less likely, at least not before magazine capacity limitations/semiauto bans.
- Firearms barrels become a controlled item. Not discussed too much right now, but as 3-D printing gets
better, might become a regulatory angle. Ditto for the "Ghost Gunner" project.
This type of a regulatory move would make sense, mainly, in the setting of a semi-auto / AW ban.
Those are my main concerns, at least for now; most of the items on this list (*except for an outright handgun
ban) seem at least possible in the next 10 years. And, most of these limits are already law in at least 1 U.S. state.
I think blatant gun confiscation, limits on blackpowder guns, limits on air rifles, and other extreme measures
are still a bit off, but perhaps could be part of a "2nd-wave" of extreme gun control, if the left gets its way
(and note that many European countries employ such measures).
Thanks for your consideration of this post,
SD
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Appreciate the info... auction ended at $42K with reserve not met...
looks like he's been listing this gun since December... the $54K "buy it now"
price seems pretty high based on my research, any idea of what he's
willing to take for this gun?
Thanks, SM
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Anyone want to comment on this one?
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/737829391
It's an RIA, bidding presently at $42,000.00, Reserve still not met.
Maybe prices are climbing?
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So since I started this thread on "Autoweapons" about two years ago...
- I emailed for a quote on a nice-looking M1 Thompson they had listed; got a quick reply that was
polite enough, but about $10K above what I eventually found one (original WW2 gun) for. Given the differential,
my judgement was that we were way too far apart to likely ever make a deal, so I didn't counter or
otherwise try to negotiate on that gun.
- I subsequently purchased one of the Integrally Suppressed Rugers ("Amphibian") from them, and have
to say that that transfer was handled quickly & professionally, and no problems (*gun now in my safe).
I would presume they cater to a clientele (not me!) that has soooo much money, that "$10K either way" is neither
here nor there... and that seems to be the way that most MG ownership is going... keep in mind we live in a
country where it is said that 63% of people couldn't cover an unexpected $500 debt...
My $0.02...
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That's just it. The guns can't be sold
OK, so the auction saying they were "Transferrable" was an error then?
(*auction has been ended since my initial post)
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Has this one been discussed yet?
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/724443260
To my (non-expert) eyes, the pics look pretty good, and price seems
fair enough... am I missing something?
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I realize it's not an 'original' M-60 (in the government issue sense), but
something like this might be an OK shooter--
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/forums/index.php?/topic/9048-ria-m60-ex-cond-48k/
...presently $48K, maybe a tad high on the price for an RIA...?
http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/html/us_belt_9.html
I'm only so-so on this one, but would like to pick up a dedicated "belt gun"
one day, so I'm Interested to hear what board members have to say.
Thanks!
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Received my Mag loader today-- well made, tight tolerances, beautiful finish,
prompt shipping/delivery after payment.
Highly recommend; even if you only shoot your Thompson once in a while
(as in my case), it's a unique accessory to have.
SM
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Has this one been discussed? (didn't see anything after a quick search)
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/700994566
...I don't think I'm going to bid on it, but it does look like it might be a viable
option for those looking to pick up a 21AC.
Interested in hearing what the board thinks, especially about the rather lengthy
description of its "ties" to Dillinger.
About $40K as I post this (*reserve not met).
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I noticed the M1 as well, clearly a very good deal at the current price ($18,050.00 as I make
this post).
But.... the auction has over 3 days to go and I doubt it'll stay there... my guess would be it
will finish at least in the low $20's... will be interesting to see.
I do agree that the market has gotten soft for the present, particularly compared to where it
was right before the implementation of '41F' (July, 2016)... and who knows, maybe the recent
hurricane activity will shake a few MG's onto the market.
1921 Colts Market
in Thompson Submachine Gun Message Board
Posted
Although I'm not looking at present, the market *had* gotten better for 21's, it seemed, after a number
of PD guns came on the market in the past few years (that is, better in the sense of more of these guns
for sale / more options for buyers).
I was able to find "my" 1921 by posting a "WTB" message on the forum -
http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23942&hl=
I agree that going to one of the Thompson Association meetings would likely be productive, although that
may or may not be an option depending on time/schedule constraints.
Best of luck,
SM