C&R Transfer Question for Pennsylvania

[buzz]

If I was to buy a Thompson from out of state, could it be transferred directly to me if I have a C&R FFL license?

 

I am a PA resident.

 

PA gun laws are somewhat confusing so I figured I better ask and be 100% sure.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

[GUNGUY45]

If the gun is C&R eligible, & you have your C&R license you are good to go.

[buzz]

I was not sure how PA state laws affected acquiring guns with the C&R FFL.

 

Since the Thompson has a 10" barrel, I guess it would fall under the PA rules governing handguns and short barreled rifles and shotguns:

 

The Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act defines “firearm” as “any pistol or revolver with a barrel less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches, any rifle with a barrel of less than 16 inches or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches.”

 

Usually an MG is considered to be in a class by itself as a "machinegun", but I'm pretty sure in PA it also has the "firearm" status as indicated above.

[bug]

I was not sure how PA state laws affected acquiring guns with the C&R FFL.

 

Since the Thompson has a 10" barrel, I guess it would fall under the PA rules governing handguns and short barreled rifles and shotguns:

 

The Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act defines “firearm” as “any pistol or revolver with a barrel less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches, any rifle with a barrel of less than 16 inches or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches.”

 

Usually an MG is considered to be in a class by itself as a "machinegun", but I'm pretty sure in PA it also has the "firearm" status as indicated above.

 

With the C&R you can receive the C&RMG and book it in with no checks just as you would a C&R pistol.

[Paul in PA]

As a resident of Pennsylvania, I have purchased all my C&R Class 3 on my C&R FFL. Just entered it into my bound book.

 

Paul in PA

[buzz]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I guess the Thompson must be treated similar to a C&R NFA handgun in PA.

 

The reason for my concern is that usually gun laws applying to regular guns don't apply to machine guns.

 

It being an NFA machine gun is supposed to trump all other considerations.

 

Like for example, you can stick a shorty upper on an M16 without making an illegal SBR because the m16 isn't legally a "rifle," it is a "machine gun" with completely different rules.

 

But in PA, a short barreled m16 would fall under that weird 'firearm" definition.

 

So I imagine that if you sold a short-barreled M16 to a neighbor in PA you'd need that state police form filled out in addition to the ATF NFA paperwork.

[RoscoeTurner]

When all else fails you know you can all ATF and ask them.

[The Lone Ranger]

Buzz, you are correct on PA definitions - a MG with a barrel under 16 would require a Record of Sale (ROS) processed through a licensee (dealer). What I can't address for certain is the C&R licensee being able to skip it. I THINK I know the answer but don't want to post w/out solid backing. I'll work on it.

[buzz]

Well, if a C&R handgun purchase required a C&R FFL license holder to also use a dealer to make a purchase, it would sort of render having the C&R FFL to be pretty useless.

 

I imagine we would have heard about it already from other PA C&R FFLs, because it would be a big deal.

[buzz]

This is a PA state police type deal, has nothing much to do with ATF.

 

I'll have to call the state police and see if I can find anyone who actually knows the answer.

 

It really not explicitly addressed anywhere in the PA code as far as I can tell. So probably nobody will know the answer.

 

There probably is no actual correct answer because nobody thought of it when they were writing the state laws.

 

 

When all else fails you know you can all ATF and ask them.

Edited August 16, 2013 by buzz

[RoscoeTurner]

You will probably be told it is illegal to own machine guns on your first call to the PA SP which is why I suggested calling ATF first.

 

 

 

This is a PA state police type deal, has nothing much to do with ATF.

 

I'll have to call the state police and see if I can find anyone who actually knows the answer.

 

It really not explicitly addressed anywhere in the PA code as far as I can tell. So probably nobody will know the answer.

 

There probably is no actual correct answer because nobody thought of it when they were writing the state laws.

 

 

When all else fails you know you can all ATF and ask them.

[bug]

Buzz,

 

It seems that state law is what is clouding this issue. All of the "odd" PA definations are a non-issue if the C&R gun is going to a C&R holder. It comes to you on an F4 and is logged into your book regardless of barrel length. One of the benefits of a C&R lic.

[buzz]

You must be right because otherwise PA C&R FFL guys would be unable to buy any C&R handguns without going through a dealer, and if that was true then you'd hear every PA C&R FFL holder complaining loudly about it.

 

But since you hear virtually nothing about it at all, it's obviously OK for a C&R FFL to buy C&R handguns directly.

 

And of course that would include the NFA stuff that falls into the same category under the PA law.

 

 

 

 

Buzz,

 

It seems that state law is what is clouding this issue. All of the "odd" PA definations are a non-issue if the C&R gun is going to a C&R holder. It comes to you on an F4 and is logged into your book regardless of barrel length. One of the benefits of a C&R lic.

Edited August 16, 2013 by buzz

[The Lone Ranger]

buzz - good to go; if firearm is C&R and going to a C&R licensee, the ROS does not apply.

 

As always, never take legal advice from the internet (cuz so many of us that claim to "know" really don't). The best place for verification is PSP firearms unit.