John Ryan

Bingo! No need to take off the front band now. I usualy like to take the hanguards off by sliding them forward but this worked. Thanks BM59collector. JR

I want to take the front band off to swap the handguard and I can see what's going on the with the clip. It's orientation is controlled on the top by the tab that goes under the band. It seems like a brute force move to push open the clip from the bottom. Instead of banging at it I'd like to do a controlled spread from the bottom and then hook under it and pull off from the top. Is there a more finesse technique to take these on and off. If the Garand hanguard tool was just a bit smaller it might...... nope. Any help is appreciated. JR

Thanks fot the great pics and explanation. I think I get it. The Nigerian, the BM62 and the BM69 have the gas cylinder without a spindle valve and grenade launcher site. Though two of them have been machined for Bipod use. That is where I was wanting to go. I wanted to set up with the 4 inch brake with bayo lug no indirect ENERGA grenade sight and have a the ability to use the bipod. I see now that what I really want is a Nigerian or BM69 gas cyl. I also now understand that the sheet metal of the ENERGA sight provides critical spacing in the assembly of the spindle valve. If I want the the bipod that bad it might be easier for me to just get indirect ENERGA grenade sight and just put it on even though the brake will not have a launcher. All my italian contacts are out right now. Does anyone have a grenade sight for sale? Thanks again.

Mike thanks for the pics you sent. I think what I may be looking for is a Gas cyl spindle valve set up with NO grenade launching capability. Oh yeah and how does that front band come off? JR

I recently Picked up a Berben imports BM62. It's a shooter and I happened to have a spare new BM59 stock and hardware. My first question is, is the Garand rear handguard a direct swap for the BM59. The one that is on this BM62 is to finely sanded and the wrong color to go with a GI buttstock. Here is the current HG and potential stock. ( how do those BM59 front bands come off?) http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/BM%2062/Stocks/DSCF3286.jpg . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/BM%2062/Stocks/DSCF3290.jpg . Second is the gas cyl. I have a bipod and a NOS BM59 gas cyl as well as some spindle valve parts. Though I'm not sure I have all the right parts with it. Is there more than one type of spindle valve? This is the gas cyl and the stuff that came with it. The Valve is clearly for use with a grenade launcher which I will not be adding. The nut for the other side seems OK but the pin and Spring clip don't seem to belong. . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Bm59%20parts/DSCF3295.jpg . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Bm59%20parts/DSCF3300.jpg . If any can share pics of their front ends it will help. John

I have got this new E stock from SARCO all stripped and re-finished. It was definitely A Std BM 59 stock, cut 1/2 inch shorter to E length. There are bi pod holes which E models did not have as well as modifications to fill the area milled for the winter trigger. I did not sand but did steam some dents out. On a side note I can say that Italian stocks are not as dimensionally uniform as USGI Garand stocks. All the ones I have tried fitting ( on BM 59's too) have required different tweaks to get them to fit right. None were "drop in". Not that USGI stocks are always that way but I have never had to dick with them to the same extent. I had a some new Beretta handguards so they are on now too. Before Top to bottom; Reese new BM59E stock. Sarco tan stock ( came with original kit) and Sarco black stock from above. . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20stock/DSCF3178.jpg . During . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20stock/DSCF3226.jpg . After Top to bottom; Reese new BM59E stock. Sarco tan stock ( came with original kit) and Sarco black stock refinished. . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20stock/DSCF3232.jpg . Before . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20stock/DSCF3216.jpg . During . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20stock/DSCF3227.jpg . After . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20stock/DSCF3236.jpg . Here are the modifications to fill the area milled for the winter trigger. The work is utilitarian and fairly neat. It does show us that no stocks were going to waste. . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20stock/DSCF3243.jpg . The same repair from the top . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20stock/DSCF3244.jpg . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20stock/DSCF3241.jpg . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20stock/DSCF3239.jpg . . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20stock/DSCF3238.jpg . Before . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/DSCF2617.jpg . After . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/DSCF3249.jpg . . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/DSCF3256.jpg JR

topN It looks like the F - PB - B.M. 59 bolt you have has two drawn "P". Both of my converted bolts have a "P"drawn in the same spot. This pics is a little better. I just noticed punch marks on these converted bolts, just above the drawing #. http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Bm59%20parts/DSCF2739.jpg JR

Have any BM 62 owners ever considered porting their muzzle cap to make it a brake. I was comparing the BM 62 cap and BM 59 E brake and other than the ports and placement of the Gas cyl hole, it seems like the pieces were of the same construction. Type E brake TOP. BM62 cap BOTTOM . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Muzzle%20Brake/DSCF3168.jpg . BM62 cap LEFT, Type E brake RIGHT . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Muzzle%20Brake/DSCF3172.jpg . Type E brake LEFT. BM62 cap RIGHT . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Muzzle%20Brake/DSCF3174.jpg . JR

That cross section one looks interesting I picked up a couple of BM59 bolts last year. These bolts are USGI Garand bolts converted by Beretta with relief cuts to allow the bolt to better pass through the feed lips of the BM 59 magazine. They have been lightly engraved on the top so you can see that the mods have been done. These two were once USGI bolts from IHC and SA. . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Bm59%20parts/DSCF2735.jpg . Here you can see some of the modifications made on the right side. New SA Garand bolt on top. BM 59 bolt on bottom. . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Bm59%20parts/DSCF2741.jpg . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Bm59%20parts/DSCF2743.jpg . Here you can see a bottom view of the relief cuts. BM 59 bolt on left. New SA Garand bolt on right. . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Bm59%20parts/DSCF2753.jpg . From the front you can really see where Beretta took some meat off. BM 59 bolt on left. New SA Garand bolt on right. . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Bm59%20parts/DSCF2755.jpg . . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Bm59%20parts/DSCF2764.jpg . JR

The 62 went cheap. JR

Great comparison shots. JR

Sorry Mike.

Mike I used on line and it was here in 3 days....no kidding. No muss no fuss. Unbelievable! the hand guards that came with this set were "vets" and not in the same great shape as the Black painted buttstock. The front ferule had little finish left. The Front HG is not identifiably Italian. I have see BMB and PB stamped on front handguard ferules but this one had no stamp. The rear HG had no finish left on the the clip. The wood on both was serviceable. Obviously the front is useful for the Garand spares bin and may someday match some other combo of used wood that may come my way. For me it was the buttstock with pad screws, door and front ferule. JR

Reese Surplus has just found some BM59 "E" stocks ($50.00) and rear handguards ($15.00) in their inventory. If your E stock from your Sarco kit was as bad as mine you may want to grab one of these. The one I got from Reese was NEW and inleted for full auto and was the correct length to lock up nice and tight on the BM59 E. It did not have the side swing rear swivel and will therefore tolerate a Std Garand butt plate even though the buttplate holes were set up for the BM 59 rubber buttplate. Colleen Reese (309)441-5003 phone reesesurplus@geneseo.net I was browsing the new Sarco E store and saw they had " BM 59 stock sets" for sale for $39.95 http://e-sarcoinc.com/bm59stocksetgoodused.aspx There was no pic so I rolled the dice. The Stock the came with my original parts kit was pretty beat so I hoped the chances for improvement were in my favor. What came was a set INCLUDING ALL STOCK HARDWARE AND RUBBER BUTTPLATE. The front handguards were pretty rough but the butt was the payoff. It was painted black but in great shape under the paint. Nice sharp edges, few dings and no toe wear. Oddly it had bi-pod holes so this was probably trimmed back a 1/2 inch from a Std BM 59 Stock. It is very tight on my rifle and will take some fitting once I get the paint off. The front swivel was Just OK but the rubber buttplate was in very good shape. Your mileage may vary. Here is the Sarco Set . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20stock/DSCF3221.jpg . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20stock/DSCF3216.jpg . Top to bottom; Reese new BM59E stock. Sarco tan stock ( came with original kit) and Sarco black stock from above. . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20stock/DSCF3178.jpg JR

Those are a nice find. Will any of those items be for sale anytime soon? What you seek might be hard to find. I hope the Italians can help. JR

Thanks Mike. I'm OK with doors. I may have line on some rubber buttplates. I'll post a new thread. JR

Mike Who is selling new rubber buttplates? JR

FYI Reese Surplus has just found some BM59 "E" stocks ($50.00) and rear handguards ($15.00) in their inventory. If your E stock from Sarco was as bad as mine you may want to grab one of these. The one I got from her was inleted for full auto and was the correct length to lock up nice and tight on the BM59 E. It did not have the side swing rear swivel and will therefore tolerate a Std Garand butt plate. It was a light colored walnut that had been dyed brown. No makers marks but the heel and grip profile is like the other 1/2" short Terni 7.62 Garand stock I have. If you order one, ask Colleen to double check this measurement on the right side from the full auto cutout to the tip of the stock ( w ferrule removed). The BM59 is 9 1/2 " from the full auto cutout to the tip of the stock The BM59 "E" is 9" from the full auto cutout to the tip of the stock Colleen Reese (309)441-5003 phone reesesurplus@geneseo.net There will never be more of these. JR

I did find out that the barrel markings... SIAU, stands for Società Italiana Acciai Ugine, or the Italian Society of Steel, Ugine. It was founded in 1930 as an Italian subsidiary of the French Ugine S.A. SIAU was sold to an Italian company, IMS SpA, in the 1990's. They still make custom steels in bars, rods, and sheets. http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/DSCF2626.jpg JR

Walt Type E op rod guide is 6 1/8 inches long. and .295 in (7.49mm) thick at hook. It appears to run on a std Garand spring. This one was at 19 and 1/8 at rest ( probably need to be replaced soon.) shown here with a std M1 Garand http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20conversion/DSCF2638.jpg The reduced diameter portion under wrapped coil is exactly 1" long . Sorry I did not feel like taking that spring off to mic it. I'm not sure I know what you mean by the "op rod spring housing is different than the one used on the BM59". The op rod spring is in the op rod. I hope that helps. JR

Sure Walt I will measure and take some separate pics for you. The reason I took such detailed shots was because I too have had projects in this direction. I though others might like to see the real changes at work here with the skirt off. I saw this piece for sale and decided it would save me a lot of time and dough to get this rifle when it became available. I'll expand with the new pics when I get them up but for all intents and purposes this is a USGI op rod (with the same bend). It has been shortened at the tip one half inch by Beretta to meet their design specs of shortening/ converting the barrel to 7.62. The op rods travel has the same relationship to the receiver bolt and barrel as one that is reciprocating on a std Garand. What is different is the method in which it's movement is governed. The OP rod spring guide, in this "E" configuration, is anchored to a pin in the front magazine block instead of the std M1 config linked to the follower arm. I'll get some comparison shots. (I love comparison shots) I'll bet the op rod spring is shorter than std Garand in this variation. JR

Mike The mag catch pin is welded in in a nice puddle. Did it really need to be? . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20conversion/DSCF2189.jpg Finding the brake was a stroke of unmeasurable luck. The guy who was selling said he had had it in his parts box for 20 years and just decided to bring it that day. A Smith brake (spendy) would do profile wise but having the right one is what makes it a complete "E" to me. http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/DSCF2618.jpg . JR

I registered here years ago but have become an infrequent lurker. After recently buyin this from fellow on the FAL Files who had commissioned this build from James at http://www.cmparmory.com/ I thought I would post some pics. It was built with one of the Kits Sarco is advertising as a BM 59 kit. I have seen this ad in there for years and had never seen or heard of anyone who had done the conversion until now. James at CMP Armory said he has done a few. I remember reading (maybe) here and there that some of these parts may be left over from old projects by Fed Ord/Sante Fe and Golden State. Other posters mentioned that these kits come from Type E conversions done by Beretta for the Argentine navy. I'm not sure what parts of that jazz are true or not. What is true is that these are very cool rifles. http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/DSCF2617.jpg . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/DSCF2273.jpg I have had a chance to run about 200 rounds through this rifle it and I have to say it runs great and is my current favorite to shoot. The barrel that came with this kit gauges 1 at the muzzle 3 at the throat. It shoots 1 MOA with no problem. The BM59 bolt that came with it did not headspace so this is running with a PB Garand bolt for now. It takes a little nudge to drop the bolt on the first round but feeds and cycles fine under power. Here you can see the biggest changes in the modifications to the Garand receiver. In this case the receiver legs have to be drastically reshaped not only on the inside to allow the mag to pass but too lock into the stock as that relationship is changed from the Garands. . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20conversion/DSCF2203.jpg . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20conversion/DSCF2199.jpg . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20conversion/DSCF2180.jpg . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20conversion/DSCF2187.jpg . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20conversion/DSCF2366.jpg . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20conversion/DSCF2194.jpg Here are some shots showing the differences in the inside of the stock. . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/DSCF2321.jpg . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/DSCF2322.jpg . Here compared to a USGI postwar birch . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20stock/DSCF2349.jpg . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20stock/DSCF2336.jpg . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20stock/DSCF2338.jpg . The receiver has been modified to have the BM59 bolt catch hold the bolt back after the last round is fired. . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20conversion/DSCF2287.jpg . The barrels are similar to but not identical to the Italian 7.62 conversions that Sarco also sells in that they are a half inch shorter that a 30-06 barrel. The difference is that the Type E/BM 59 barrels have feed ramps timed into the throat and some contour added in the form of a ramp to ease the op rod along the barrel shoulder. The op rod in the type E kit is the same length as the SARCO Italian 7.62 conversion op rod. I tested and they are in fact interchangeable. . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20conversion/DSCF2285.jpg . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20conversion/DSCF2354.jpg . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/Type%20E%20conversion/DSCF2357.jpg . Anyone know what make of barrel this is?? . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/DSCF2626.jpg . The guy who commissioned the build did not get a brake in his kit and SARCO never made good on it. I even called MG Dave but he said he would not break up a kit. Three weeks ago as I was walking into a Chicagoland gun show I saw one. It was on the first table right by the door. I should have played the lottery that day. Anyway..The brake has 8 ports on the left and 16 ports on the right. I presume this was to control muzzle rise to the right in auto fire. The stubby little break works very well in semi auto and there is very little muzzle rise at all. . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/DSCF2621.jpg . http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M1/Type%20E%20Garand/DSCF2622.jpg . I'm very happy with my Type E. I love niche models like these. JR

I did see it. It was a nice fluffer piece for the BM59E. Coincidently ( Yeah ! ), SARCO's add in the 8/18 Shotgun News ( pg 72) lists those kits ( $595.00) as well as a drawing ($39.50) to complete a Garand reciever to fit it. It sounds like a great project were it not for the high price of the parts kit. Still I would love to hear about someone putting one of those together. Specificly the additional operations required to modify the Garand reciever. Post it here.