Interesting On The Tricomp...how About Other Bm Questions

[ordmm]

The discussion on the Tri-Comp was very interesting. Have heard some talk about the fact that the BM59 was smoother than the M14. Since I've never done a side by side comparison will have to let others weigh in on that.

 

But, the more I get into the BM59, what at first seems like a M1 Garand clone, you really start noticing that Beretta made many subtile changes.

 

There are a couple that really stand out. First the threads on the barrel that the gas lock or muzzle break thread onto are approx half again as long as a standard Garand. Would assume that this is to support the extra weight and length of the various muzzle breaks?

 

Also the hollow gas screw which is also shorter than a standard Garand gas screw. Have heard some theories that this smoothed out the recoil pulse? (much like the chamber in the compensator?) Others have said when used on a standard Garand that won't cycle. or short cycle, the BM gas screw will make the rifle work fine.

 

Also, why the milled out cuts on each side of the rear of the barrel, as well as the "c-clip" that holds on the lower band. More machine work. What was the purpose?

 

And have heard it said that the Italians issued only one mag going on the fact that the magazine would be reloaded with chargers from the top of the rifle. Any truth to this?

 

There are many out there who know a whole lot more about the BM59....any observations will be appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance to any info on the above.

 

Greg

[winbar]

The discussion on the Tri-Comp was very interesting. Have heard some talk about the fact that the BM59 was smoother than the M14. Since I've never done a side by side comparison will have to let others weigh in on that.

 

But, the more I get into the BM59, what at first seems like a M1 Garand clone, you really start noticing that Beretta made many subtile changes.

 

There are a couple that really stand out. First the threads on the barrel that the gas lock or muzzle break thread onto are approx half again as long as a standard Garand. Would assume that this is to support the extra weight and length of the various muzzle breaks?

 

Also the hollow gas screw which is also shorter than a standard Garand gas screw. Have heard some theories that this smoothed out the recoil pulse? (much like the chamber in the compensator?) Others have said when used on a standard Garand that won't cycle. or short cycle, the BM gas screw will make the rifle work fine.

 

Also, why the milled out cuts on each side of the rear of the barrel, as well as the "c-clip" that holds on the lower band. More machine work. What was the purpose?

 

And have heard it said that the Italians issued only one mag going on the fact that the magazine would be reloaded with chargers from the top of the rifle. Any truth to this?

 

There are many out there who know a whole lot more about the BM59....any observations will be appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance to any info on the above.

 

Greg

A BM59 barrel came up for auction on Gunbroker a few months back. The guy posted pictures of it next to a Garand barrel. It was longer than a "standard" bm59 barrel and did not have the lightening cuts to the chamber area. The lack of the L. cuts made me think it might be someone's hobbyist project. Then I started thinking that the Mark IV S.A.W. would probably want the extra weight.

I believe the extra barrel threads and switch to a C-clip retainer were the result of the booster/ recoil chamber on the tricomps. Having shot a .45 auto barrel-bushing compensator right off of my 10mm Delta (Almost twice the muzzle energy) halfway through the 2nd magazine, an extra 1/4" of threads to prevent distortion/ stripping probably became necessary early on. The same thing with the Garand lower band. The single point roll-pin probably egged and the lower band began to rock from the gun pushing back and forth at the miniscule retaining point. (Maybe also counter-measures to Italian D.I.s demonstrating bayonet slashes on old refrigerators during boot camp.)

As far as the gas plug, there probably is some cool physics phenomenom at work. I remember a college professor dropping a marble into a water-filled elliptical pan at one foci and the water splashing back up at the other foci.

It seems strange to issue a select-fire weapon with one magazine. Where are all the former Italian commandos when you need one?

I love my BM59. It is still the best deal for the money if you want a rifle caliber machine gun.

Doug

[TopN]

Greg,

 

I guess that I'm one of those that think a BM59 is smoother than an M14. Maybe it's the longer Garand Action in 7.62mm NATO, or maybe the Rubber Butt has something to do with it - maybe both.

 

About the longer threaded portion of the BM59 muzzle - what you said sounds good to me. The TriComp weights a heck of alot more than a Garand Gas Cylinder Lock.

 

I've never used a BM59 Gas Plug on a Garand, but I'd guess that it would be like using an early solid Garand Gas Plug.

 

The only barrel I can think of that isn't a cylinder at the base is the P.C. barrel, which had milled flats (I call them "cheeks"). As it was for Parachutists, I assume it was done for weight reduction.

 

 

As to the C-Clip for the Front Band (or Lower Band) - I've always assumed it was done that way for accuracy proposes.

 

I been told the Italians used British Pattern 58 & US web gear to hold BM Mags - I've never been able to find any Italian Pouches. I've never heard that they only used stripper clips to reload - although that would explain why no Italian Mag Pouches have been available.

 

In the above I said "maybe", "guess", "been told", & "assume" alot, sorry. I can talk about an individual part that I have, but the "Why" Beretta (or the Italian Military for that matter) did something is just guess work - they junked their records a long time ago.

 

Steve

 

[mikebaker1129]

The BM62 barrels and the standard Ital barrels have the cuts underneath also.

I have also heard and seen alot of the British webgear forsale for the BM59 when Andy started selling on ebay .

The barrel awhile back on GB was a Mark 4 barrel , it was a rare find.I passed it on to a friend ,I believe he bought it for the buy it now price.

The cuts serve no purpose that I know of other than weight as Steve suggested.If I were to make barrels, I would eliminate these cuts on the underneath and save on machine work.The Nigerian Mark 4 barrels do not have these cuts,the E/SL models do not have the cuts either.

 

You could always have a Garand style lower band made up anduse the 1/8" roll pin to secure the band , the bands are difficult to locate as are original barrels. This is an area that could be simplified in my opinion.

[winbar]

The BM62 barrels and the standard Ital barrels have the cuts underneath also.

I have also heard and seen alot of the British webgear forsale for the BM59 when Andy started selling on ebay .

The barrel awhile back on GB was a Mark 4 barrel , it was a rare find.I passed it on to a friend ,I believe he bought it for the buy it now price.

The cuts serve no purpose that I know of other than weight as Steve suggested.If I were to make barrels, I would eliminate these cuts on the underneath and save on machine work.The Nigerian Mark 4 barrels do not have these cuts,the E/SL models do not have the cuts either.

 

You could always have a Garand style lower band made up anduse the 1/8" roll pin to secure the band , the bands are difficult to locate as are original barrels. This is an area that could be simplified in my opinion.

Mike,

Glad to see you jump in. Do you have any idea why Reese/ SA inc. had demilled/remilled quick-detaches? I found an undefiled one on Sarco's website in the spring of 2001. The one I run on my gun is a 1997 "guestimated" restoration. I used an aftermarket XM 177e2 flash suppressor with the necked-down threaded portion to build back up the Reese frankenstein. Mine is about 1/8 inch too long. Have you done any business with the Reese BM59 benefactor? I'm looking for 4 of the hollow retaining pins for the front mag -catch.

Doug

 

[mikebaker1129]

The BM62 barrels and the standard Ital barrels have the cuts underneath also.

I have also heard and seen alot of the British webgear forsale for the BM59 when Andy started selling on ebay .

The barrel awhile back on GB was a Mark 4 barrel , it was a rare find.I passed it on to a friend ,I believe he bought it for the buy it now price.

The cuts serve no purpose that I know of other than weight as Steve suggested.If I were to make barrels, I would eliminate these cuts on the underneath and save on machine work.The Nigerian Mark 4 barrels do not have these cuts,the E/SL models do not have the cuts either.

 

You could always have a Garand style lower band made up anduse the 1/8" roll pin to secure the band , the bands are difficult to locate as are original barrels. This is an area that could be simplified in my opinion.

Mike,

Glad to see you jump in. Do you have any idea why Reese/ SA inc. had demilled/remilled quick-detaches? I found an undefiled one on Sarco's website in the spring of 2001. The one I run on my gun is a 1997 "guestimated" restoration. I used an aftermarket XM 177e2 flash suppressor with the necked-down threaded portion to build back up the Reese frankenstein. Mine is about 1/8 inch too long. Have you done any business with the Reese BM59 benefactor? I'm looking for 4 of the hollow retaining pins for the front mag -catch.

Doug

No Doug, I do not know why they remanufactured them. They did reproduce several items.

I have not found out who purchased the Reese inventory or if it was even disposed of .Are you referring to the "Hollow" 8mm pin ?

Mike

[winbar]

The BM62 barrels and the standard Ital barrels have the cuts underneath also.

I have also heard and seen alot of the British webgear forsale for the BM59 when Andy started selling on ebay .

The barrel awhile back on GB was a Mark 4 barrel , it was a rare find.I passed it on to a friend ,I believe he bought it for the buy it now price.

The cuts serve no purpose that I know of other than weight as Steve suggested.If I were to make barrels, I would eliminate these cuts on the underneath and save on machine work.The Nigerian Mark 4 barrels do not have these cuts,the E/SL models do not have the cuts either.

 

You could always have a Garand style lower band made up anduse the 1/8" roll pin to secure the band , the bands are difficult to locate as are original barrels. This is an area that could be simplified in my opinion.

Mike,

Glad to see you jump in. Do you have any idea why Reese/ SA inc. had demilled/remilled quick-detaches? I found an undefiled one on Sarco's website in the spring of 2001. The one I run on my gun is a 1997 "guestimated" restoration. I used an aftermarket XM 177e2 flash suppressor with the necked-down threaded portion to build back up the Reese frankenstein. Mine is about 1/8 inch too long. Have you done any business with the Reese BM59 benefactor? I'm looking for 4 of the hollow retaining pins for the front mag -catch.

Doug

No Doug, I do not know why they remanufactured them. They did reproduce several items.

I have not found out who purchased the Reese inventory or if it was even disposed of .Are you referring to the "Hollow" 8mm pin ?

Mike

Yes, it is the 8mm hollow pins I am seeking.

Doug

[bm59collector]

Doug and others needing parts - look on e-bay, just type in BM59 and look at the first item, then go down to the pictures and look at the last picture. The person in Italy has many different parts shown in the listing (one form of getting around e-bay's policies). Use e-bay to contact the individual, but be careful about putting in you e-mail address - spell it out like joesmith at aol dot dot dot com telling them to leave out the last 2 dots - you can then deal directly with the individual. I have not done any dealing with this person, but have done business with others from Italy and have never had a problem - all the rifles in Italy have been broken down into parts, the receivers and the bayonets have gone to the smelter, but the parts remain, since they are just parts and there is no trouble importing them - at least I've never had a problem on trigger packs, etc. There is web gear, I have 2 magazine holders with Velcro closers made specifically for the BM59. Where the Reese parts went, I do not know but I do know that there wasn't a heck of a lot left and I've been dealing with them since 1982. It's like the mystery of what happened to the Reising parts. HTH, Art Edited July 28, 2011 by bm59collector

[winbar]

Doug and others needing parts - look on e-bay, just type in BM59 and look at the first item, then go down to the pictures and look at the last picture. The person in Italy has many different parts shown in the listing (one form of getting around e-bay's policies). Use e-bay to contact the individual, but be careful about putting in you e-mail address - spell it out like joesmith at aol dot dot dot com telling them to leave out the last 2 dots - you can then deal directly with the individual. I have not done any dealing with this person, but have done business with others from Italy and have never had a problem - all the rifles in Italy have been broken down into parts, the receivers and the bayonets have gone to the smelter, but the parts remain, since they are just parts and there is no trouble importing them - at least I've never had a problem on trigger packs, etc. There is web gear, I have 2 magazine holders with Velcro closers made specifically for the BM59. Where the Reese parts went, I do not know but I do know that there wasn't a heck of a lot left and I've been dealing with them since 1982. It's like the mystery of what happened to the Reising parts. HTH, Art

Thanks Art I may resort to that.

Doug

[mikebaker1129]

Art any chance of you posting some pics of the web gear for the magazines ?

[bm59collector]

Mike and other interested individuals - I'm attaching some photos of the mag holders that I purchased from a individual in Italy probably 5+ years ago

The rear of the gear http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i236/ffl-transfers/IMG_0103.jpg

 

The front of the gear

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i236/ffl-transfers/IMG_0102.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i236/ffl-transfers/IMG_0101.jpg

 

Workmanship is excellent, besides the snaps, pebbled grain embossed finish, there is also velcro on the inside to make sure the flaps stay closed - the only regret is that I didn't purchase another one

[mikebaker1129]

Thanks Art !

That is something that I have not yet seen .

The pouch holds 2 single mags ?

[bm59collector]

Everyone - the pouch holds 2 mags, somewhere I remember seeing them worn - one pouch on either side of the chest - something about Sicily and the mafia comes to mind when troops were sent there and the Army was put in charge FWIW

[Wotan]

And have heard it said that the Italians issued only one mag going on the fact that the magazine would be reloaded with chargers from the top of the rifle. Any truth to this?

 

I can (partially) confirm this.

 

When I was in service we were issued with one empty mag during training, and two 7.62 NATO full loaded magazines during guard duty.

We were trained to refill empty magazines with ammo clips from top of the rifle.

 

Ciao,

W.

[Wotan]

I been told the Italians used British Pattern 58

 

I used that, only during exercises. It was particularly uncomfortable, and ridicolous (it was 1992...). Most of the time, during daily training we had only one magazine on the rifle. When we had more than one we simply carried them into BDU pouches (chest pouches were tailored for carry one BM mag).

 

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i236/ffl-transfers/IMG_0101.jpg

 

Workmanship is excellent, besides the snaps, pebbled grain embossed finish, there is also velcro on the inside to make sure the flaps stay closed - the only regret is that I didn't purchase another one

 

Never seen one on active duty.

 

Ciao,

W.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Wotan