USMC Para's W/1928, Garands And JLMG

[thomas.hondo]

Paramarines mid '43. Came across this and scanned for the board. Savage, Colt?? I don't think the Marines were getting Bridgeports or Savages in 1941-2??? I have read on numerous occasions the Reising was pulled from front-line units after Guadalcanal (late '42) and "replaced with the Thompson SMG." Never read the make or model though. More than likley a Savage or Bridgeport depicted.

Would love to have the opportunity to own a USMC Colt 21/28.

[TSMGguy]

Great pic! Looks to be a M1907 sling on the Thompson, and M1905 bayonet on the Springfield '03.

 

I've read that many old breed Marines considered the M1903 to be superior to the Garand, and retained their Springfields whenever they could.

[jim c 351]

Great pic! Looks to be a M1907 sling on the Thompson, and M1905 bayonet on the Springfield '03.

 

I've read that many old breed Marines considered the M1903 to be superior to the Garand, and retained their Springfields whenever they could.

 

TSMGguy,

From what I've read the Marines retained the M1903 until they could steal a M1 from the Army.

Jim C

[thomas.hondo]

TSMG guy, I have read the same regarding Guadalcanal Marines not willing to part with their '03 springfields - below is a Platoon from a Marine Raider BN in early 1944.

[jim c 351]

Testimony to the Marine love for the M1903 can be found in the book "Shots Fired In Anger" by Lt. Col John George.

 

 

From the first minutes of combat on Guadalcanal the Maines began wishing for a semi auto rifle. By the time we landed we had to keep ours tied down with wire. Leathernecks were appropriating all they could lay hands on by "moonlight requisition". In daylight ,they would come over to our area to barter souvenirs from the freshly landed doughboy units; any crooked supply sergeant who had an extra M1 rifle could get all the loot he wanted.

 

The behavior of one Marine corporal seemed to epitomize this attitude. It was during a joint Marine -Infantry patrol, shortly after we landed. I saw this Marine, a member of the 2nd Marine Raider Battallion, place and keep himself squarely behind one of the army sergeants in the advance platoon. When the March was well under way the sergeant inquired as to why the Leatherneck kept trading on his heels.

The answer came quickly: You"ll probably get yours on the first burst ,Mac. Before you hit the ground I'll throw this damn Springfield away and grab your rifle.""

 

The 03 does make a nice deer rifle .

Jim C

[jim c 351]

thomas.hando,

Would love to have the opportunity to own a USMC Colt 21/28.

 

 

I might be wrong but I think you want to look for a Colt stamped "U.S. Navy. Model of 1928". The opportunities are out there.

Jim C

[thomas.hondo]

I might be wrong but I think you want to look for a Colt stamped "U.S. Navy. Model of 1928". The opportunities are out there.

Jim C

 

Roger Jim, I have Tracy Hill's book and there are a decent number of USMC 21/28's in the back - was wondering if the majority of these Marine 21 and 28 Navys made it into the NFA registry???

[TSMGguy]

Testimony to the Marine love for the M1903 can be found in the book "Shots Fired In Anger" by Lt. Col John George.

 

 

From the first minutes of combat on Guadalcanal the Maines began wishing for a semi auto rifle. By the time we landed we had to keep ours tied down with wire. Leathernecks were appropriating all they could lay hands on by "moonlight requisition". In daylight ,they would come over to our area to barter souvenirs from the freshly landed doughboy units; any crooked supply sergeant who had an extra M1 rifle could get all the loot he wanted.

 

The behavior of one Marine corporal seemed to epitomize this attitude. It was during a joint Marine -Infantry patrol, shortly after we landed. I saw this Marine, a member of the 2nd Marine Raider Battallion, place and keep himself squarely behind one of the army sergeants in the advance platoon. When the March was well under way the sergeant inquired as to why the Leatherneck kept trading on his heels.

The answer came quickly: You"ll probably get yours on the first burst ,Mac. Before you hit the ground I'll throw this damn Springfield away and grab your rifle.""

 

The 03 does make a nice deer rifle .

Jim C

[TSMGguy]

Julian Hatchers Book of the Garand (I don't have it right in front of me) makes extensive reference to the controversy surrounging the adoption of the Garand rifle. It's a great story, well worth reading. Pressure from the shooting public, the NRA and Congress caused a shoot off to take place in about 1940 that involved the '03, Garand, Johnson M1941, and (IIRC) a Winchester contender. The Garand was the clear winner in various categories, including rapidity of fire and accuracy.

 

I'd read the story about the Guadalcanal Marines lusting after purloined M1s, but wondered how they thought their separate supply system would support stolen M1s with armorers spares and ammunition.

 

I know it's heresy, but for fun shooting at the range I prefer the M1941 to the Garand for it's mild recoil, excellent accuracy, and ease of loading with stripper clips or single rounds. Cleaning is a real breeze as only the barrel need be cleaned, and it can be dismounted in an instant with only a loaded cartridge for a tool. There is no field stripping procedure for the '41, though, and if you disassemble it you have small parts everywhere!

 

A M1941 is a real Marine magnet at the range. All of them know exactly what it is, and really enjoy firing that particular piece of history!

Edited July 23, 2012 by TSMGguy

[tcgoll]

You do not see many of the 1941Johnson LMGs. A friend of mine just located one (along with some other registered dewats) There was all types of different guns that will come up for sale in the next few months. I think the Johnson went for around 30k as a dewat

[Matt in Pdx]

Years back I lucked into a very nice 41 Johnson. Being into Garands, I always wanted one. Most miserable gun to shoot I ever shot. Very sharp recoil. Ten rounds and I was done. Sold it to finance the Thompson. Shot a 41 Johnson LMG this spring. More fun because it was full auto and a 41 Johnson LMG, but still far from pleasant. Checked it off the bucket list. TSMGuy I am glad your experience is different. I am happy with the Thompson trade up.

[emmagee1917]

Hate to say this , but I think your mainspring had taken a set . I've shot several in my time , and while they kick more than a Garand , they are not brutal . Thier narrow buttplate puts the recoil up about on par with the wide buttplated '03 and '17s . Weak mainsprings are common , and the gun will batter itself if it is.

Chris

[TSMGguy]

Years back I lucked into a very nice 41 Johnson. Being into Garands, I always wanted one. Most miserable gun to shoot I ever shot. Very sharp recoil. Ten rounds and I was done. . . .

 

These are the classic symptoms of a gun with weak springs and worn internals. Some that are really worn will fling a case over 30 feet, putting a big dent in the case mouth and making one very unpopular at the range. I lucked into a really nice M1941. The action cycles gently, almost as an afterthought. Brass is deposited in a neat pile just a few feet away. It really likes surplus Danish M2 ball.

[Matt in Pdx]

May have been a bad spring. Although, I think a lot of it had to do with the narrow buttplate and how it fit my shoulder pocket. They are cool guns, and I like I said I wanted to like it.....

[emmagee1917]

The symtoms given are for a weak mainspring. Weak other springs may add to that , however . Look at how much OOW had to open up the gas ports on thier BAR semi to overcome the added resistance of a hammer and spring ignition .

Worn internals , like the locking surfaces on the top of the bolt/carrier , will prevent the bolt from unlocking all the way after the bbl recoils. If you go up to 180gr hunting ammo , the shear power and momentem of the recoiling parts will cause the bolt to continue to move and unlock after the bbl stops , Recoil is , of course , great , and you are beating the gun to death.

Just saying , the gun is no problem with M2 spec ball . If the brass ejects far and is dented and recoil is stiff , check your mainspring.

Chris

[TSMGguy]

That's right.

 

Very few M1941s were made (comparitively speaking), something less that 40,000. The ones that survived led hard lives, generally in South America. Their rarity made them desirable, worn out though they were, so many came back to the US and the civilian market.

 

The first M1941 that I bought kicked like a mule, was unreliable, and came apart in my hands within just a few rounds. It looked great, though, having been neatly refinished. Back to the seller it went. The second is in truly unissued original condition. It's a completely different piece, being accurate, reliable, and very mild mannered.

 

It took years to find a nice original bayonet and scabbard for the gun. One finally came along though. Original Johnson rifle bayonets that saw foreign service were generally serial numbered by the nation in which they served. Originally, they were produced without serial numbers.