Dolphinvet

It was amnesty registered in '68 by Seattle PD, but that just was when it was registered. It was still manufactured in '21. They did send it back with the same data that you said above back in August, and the person whom is transferring the gun to me (Sean Galt) told them the gun was manufactured in '21 and therefore is indeed a C&R weapon. ATF agreed. It's in final review now (as of last week anyway) and I will check on it next week for the status. Regardless on whether you just passed information along or not, it reached the right people and the approved form 4 was received as of last Wednesday. The man that sold it to me said he will ship it tomorrow (Dec. 3) and I should have it in my hands later this week. I maintain that without your help, the status may still be in limbo presently and not in the approved category. I will post pictures of the gun here when I have it. Now I need a nice M1 parts kit so I can replace the lower, internals, etc. back to the original blue. I intend to get the receiver and rear sight returned to the original blue finish and have a local CIII gunsmith that can do it. He shoots at the same match that I do the first Sunday of every month.

Or make ammo. I have around 10,000 rounds of .45acp laying around.

I'm hoping for my Colt 21AC to be approved in the next 2 weeks. I sent in my form 4 on 2/19/13 and my check was cashed on the 26th of February. Still pending as of last week. My M1 Thompson Form 4 was received by the person who transferred it to me on Wednesday. He said he will mail it to me on this coming Tuesday so I will have it next week. Way cool on that one. Thanks to The Lone Ranger for all the help or I'd still be in limbo land. It should be pretty cool though as with any amount of luck I'll be getting 2 different Thompsons in the mail this December, I'll take that as my Christmas present any day!

Looks like Vietnam. There sure is a ton of Thompson's, M3 grease guns, etc there. Must be hundreds of thousands of rusted out bleached out weapons. They've probably been stacked up there since the end of the Vietnam war and left to deteriorate to iron oxide.

Happy Thanksgiving. I made prime rib actually.

Sorry I've been very busy of late and haven't had much posting time. Ted Clutter was the one who signed off the form 4. I have yet to see it and the gun but I'm sure it will be here soon. I received an email from the seller telling me he received the signed form yesterday (Wednesday) but he is out of town right now and can't ship off the gun to me until this coming Tuesday (no big deal as I've waited this long). I don't have all the details that The Lone Ranger helped me with but I did send in pictures of the gun from all angles to ATF along with data showing when AOC in Bridgeport made these guns so I'm sure that data was used as well in the final judgement. At any rate, the signed form 4 has been received and I will have my M1 Thompson next week. Now if I could just get them to sign the form 4 on the Colt 21AC. It's been pending since April 16th, 5 full weeks prior to the pending status on the M1. Go figure. Maybe with luck I will have that one before Christmas.

How would you legally get this back into the US though? I wouldn't mind having the parts kit to put on my 21AC so I can shoot it, but... Plus Omega has parts kits for the '28 available here at a decent price. At least they did.

I managed to get an original case a couple months back, not in excellent shape, but in decent shape, for 1,900 dollars.

Definitely the Thompson. Want a Norden Bombsight? Check eBay. Here's one with just over 2 hours left, no bids, 1375.00 asking price. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Norden-Bomb-sight-Manufactured-by-Victor-in-good-shape-considering-the-age-/171174781000?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27dacfe048

Based upon pictures, appearances, lots of data, etc, etc, Ted Clutter has determined that my M1 Thompson is indeed a WWII weapon and has APPROVED my form 4 transfer outright!!!! I should have the gun soon now! Thanks to the Lone Ranger for help with this gun transfer and the powers that be in their understanding!

There are others who believe in what the founding fathers stated and in the second amendment. If there were no more the Tea Party wouldn't exist in my opinion. The leftists haven't destroyed all of our younger generation with their versions of what our history is or why this country was formed. A lot of our military still believes in patriotism, duty, and honor. I hope that it's enough to save this country. But as Reagan said, Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. All of us need to teach those younger than us and perhaps less fortunate what our freedoms really mean, or the toys we have will indeed be lost, along with our Rights for ourselves and our sons and daughters forever. .

Maybe I'm lucky, I never check the crimp on my 45's. I do check the OAL on the setup but once set, I don't recalibrate, just check when I start a new batch. I check powder drop maybe every 200 to 300 rounds. The Dillon 650 is a great machine and once calibrated it doesn't change much, at least mine doesn't. The only cartridge I check on every load is my .50 BMG, and that's just for accuracy. With theM10/45 digests every round I send through it without a hiccup. Rarely do I have a FTF, and I haven't cleaned my M10/45 in over a thousand rounds put through it lately. It just keeps spitting out bullets. I don't think I can treat a Thompson with such reckless abandon but that's been my experience with the MAC. Ok, just so I could be sure, just checked. OAL - 1.264" Crimp - 0.472" Powder drop - 7.9 gr. Power Pistol This is right where I set it up several thousand rounds ago. Once I tighten it all down, it shouldn't vary much at all. It hasn't. But I do check the machine for any looseness all the time.

I use a Dillon 650 press, with carbide dies for my .45acp. I use CCI primers, but for awhile it was whatever I could get, as the shows had very little to choose from. For powder, it's Alliant Power Pistol throwing 7.8 grains for a 230 grain round nose slug. I usually buy Zero Bullets FMJ, though I've been told that X-treme plated bullets are nearly as good. I probably have around 2 or 3 thousand loaded with X-treme, and 4 to 6 thousand loaded with Zero bullets. Add in another 2 or 3 thousand factory in there as well. This feeds 3 handguns, and an M10/45 sub gun with a Lage upper. I hope to try the Thompson on it as well, once my transfer takes place. I have another 500 rounds of 45 to load today, then I'm out of bullets for the week. Give me an hour.

I'm really wondering what they are trying to prove here or do, or if they have some memo that has come down from superiors that says a C&R weapon has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt as to its age. These folks work with NFA weapons and rules every day of their lives. They should know something about them. The conspiracy theorist in me feels as if there is some dark plot, not by the people approving the forms or their immediate supervisors, but by the elitists in power that want to delay transfers and slow the process down as much as possible or stop it when they can. If this doesn't provide ample evidence to its manufacture date, then what does? Records for virtually all the old weapons from their manufacturers are probably lost or destroyed. And if that's all they accept now, then when was the weapon made? When it was originally registered, according to ATF. The other side of the coin tells me that they are just trying to make all the records match, and there is no conspiracy theory. It's probably the latter. But like TD says, how could they NOT know something about these weapons.

I may have enough data between their own rules and pictures of the gun combined with the data I found in American Thunder II. This gun was rebuilt at the Rock Island Armory facility, by the fact the letters "RIA" are stamped on the left side of the receiver just behind the serial number. Also present on the left side of the receiver just behind where it says Thompson Submachine Gun are a flaming bomb and the initials "FK". This was the initials of Frank Krack, who was the supervisor of the inspection personnel from Sept 27 1941 to July 19, 1946. Since his stamp is on the guns receiver it would have to have been manufactured during Auto Ordnance during the war. I requested more pictures of the receiver from the current owner whom I'm buying it from, to further substantiate my claim, but it should be obvious that this gun is a genuine WWII weapon.

I have three AR SBR's, and I suppose they would be ok for SHTF action, but probably my Serbu super shorty 12 gauge would be better for the first couple shots anyway. If my M1 Thompson ever gets transferred to me by ATF it might make a good close range weapon but I'd still choose the MAC10/45 with the slowfire upper. My bad for getting off the subject of Thompson values vs. other machine gun values. I think they are going to level off like others say too. The skyrocketing prices of these guns in this economy cannot continue, especially with the ludicrous transfer times and the looming possibility of the CLEO signoff for trusts.

Don't forget a good supply of food too! I don't have gold & silver outside of what I wear but we all have priorities. Good thought on the Ruger 10/22, I have 2 of them. Great little gun. If I had to do room to room fighting with what I have probably I'd use my highly modified MAC10/45 than the Tommy gun because yes, they are very heavy.

I agree, to a point. However, in a truly SHTF situation, gold and silver isn't going to be as good an investment as a Thompson. You can't defend yourself from a ravenous, lawless mob with gold and silver bullion. They will however be glad to dismember you and take it afterwards. They are not so likely to do so if you're armed with a Thompson.

Ok, here is the latest, from Heather Thompson, the NFA specialist I talked to today regarding the transfer of my M1 Thompson. She told me that Ted Clutter, the supervisor, wants to have a letter stating why the gun should be judged to be a C&R weapon. This Thompson is an Auto Ordnance gun, from Bridgeport, Ct. Now, the problem is, the first time this particular gun was registered was in October, 1964. All of us know that Auto Ordnance manufactured the M1 Thompson from 1942 to 1944. How do I go about providing the NFA branch with "reasonable proof"? There must be somebody on this board who had some documentation somewhere that can aid me in providing the proper paperwork to the powers that be at NFA so they can agree with me and get it back to the pending status so I can get this gun by 2014. Right now my file is held by Heather Thompson and she said as soon as I get that letter with some more proof to her she will forward it to Ted Clutter for a final determination of status. Who out there might have some documentation about Auto Ordnance that they can email to me? Thanks in advance.

I would respectfully disagree with the assessment that NFA weapons are poor investments. I don't see them as a loser, in fact most any gun is going to go up in value, depending upon the price you get it at. They are not what one would consider a true investment, but they are definitely not losers.

I bought all of my machine guns solely to fight the battles of the zombie apocalypse. My life is the best investment I have!

Three problems with this: 1. It involves 2 transfers, and therefore an additional 200.00 dollar check to ATF. 2. Starting over with the current transfer times would mean at least another 9 month or longer wait once it's at my local class 3 FFL. To get to the FFL it would mean another form, months more of waiting, etc. I figure it would take upwards of 2 years to transfer from when I originally purchased it, probably more. I would like the gun before I am too old to enjoy it, etc. If transfer times were only in the 4 month range where they used to be, I wouldn't be in such an opposition. As they currently sit though, with no relief in sight, I am running out of patience. Right now, if they do agree it's a C&R, I should have it within 2 months. 3. I am following their rules, as stated for C&R weapons being at least 50 years old, and the right side of the receiver is stamped as an Auto Ordnance, Bridgeport , Connecticut gun. Auto Ordnance made M1 Thompsons from 1942 to 1944. To ignore the fact when manufacturing took place is to put in question every single gun ever made if it wasn't registered with ATF before a certain date, in reference to those made before the May 1986 ban. This goes against their current set of rules that states MANUFACTURING date, not REGISTRATION date. In other words, they're going against their own rules if this be the decision.

I wouldn't buy from Craigslist unless I was to inspect the goods in person beforehand.

Well this could end up being a real problem for not just me, but for virtually anyone attempting to do a C&R transfer. What really frustrates me on this issue is that I'm following their rules, as the gun is listed on page 50 of the C&R list, and they want to say it didn't exist before it was registered. If it didn't exist until then, it would be a form 1 gun for a build, if I am not mistaken. I need to get in touch with these people tomorrow and find out the ruling here.

Interesting you should ask. I was informed by Heather Thompson (I think she's a specialist) that they are, or were, supposed to make a decision on this today. She was told that they were thinking that they would NOT honor the fact that the gun was made during WWII because their first record of it is in October of 1964. Now this is ridiculous. A C&R weapon has to meet the criteria of 50 years + for it to be listed as such. They have it listed as being first registered in 1964, and that's the date they want to use as its origin. Stupid really. It's a Bridgeport gun on the right side of the receiver, and there are armory stamps all over it. I really don't see the logic in their possible ruling. Heather does remember Rust's gun, and even said that it was approved and that it's possible that the supervisor may approve mine as being a C&R because of Rust's gun being in an almost exact scenario as my gun. Mr. Clutter is the supervisor on this issue and I tried to get ahold of Heather and find out the ruling today, and I got her voicemail and left a message. No answer to the situation as of yet. I'm in limbo. If the gun gets the go ahead for approval as a C&R, then I assume it may be another 90 days before it's mine. If not, then what? Will the application be returned and then I have to submit it again at the bottom of the pile to my local dealer, and then after it's approved to him after 9 months I have to wait another 9 months before I can finally get it?? This is insane. It would be an over 2 year transfer time if that was the case. That's a long time to have paid for the gun to finally have it so that I can then start the process of fixing it to an original M1 status. This is driving me crazy. I bought the gun 8 months ago, ATF is going to make me wait until I'm in an old folks home before they approve it.