TEXAS MGC

Did they make any 1921 or 1928 Thompsons or just M1's?

OCM Finally found a connection between Wolf & Klar and HS Lebman. Apparently, Lebman was interviewed by SA CR Davis (San Anton office) in April 1934. I'm still researching his statement, but an interesting part. He mentions being visited by a "Jimmie Williams" in June 1933. He was driving a Terraplane sedan and inquiring about buying Thompsons. It is definite that Lebman purchased guns from W&K in Fort Worth. I'll let you know more when I read through all of this.

I emailed the seller. There is no true certificate of authenticity. He says the packaging is the certificate of authenticity. I tried to explain to him what a COA is but he sticks by his description of the item. Maybe it's from 1943 too!!!

The one in David's link is like mine: two drums , three mags, & stock. This one is longer for the semi auto gun. I believe there is another seller on eBay that sells the short version for a sbr or full auto. It only holds one drum, four mags, & the stock.

Here's one photo that I have. Let me know if you need more. I can email some to you.

Looks much better. Where did you get those?

I have four of them. Good quality for the price, but mostly for storage and/or display. Not very good for transporting guns. There's a dealer on GB that has a few for about $148 (no personal connection).

The Cleveland photo is the best. Good times at the Bureau! I haven't seen that one. Thanks for the post.

Looks like the agent second from the left end, has a vertical foregrip and the others have horizontal grips. Wonder what year that was 1935?

I agree with you about Ted. Although, in 1969 in a Georgia Federal court, Ted Toddy summoned Ted Hinton to verify the authenticity of the car that Toddy purchased. Apparently, Hinton convinced a federal court judge that this was the car from the backwoods of Louisiana. From that court ruling, a million dollar (almost) car was born. You have a very nice display. Thanks for sharing with us.

Did you find where Dallas Deputy Ted Hinton marked the car on May 23, 1934? Supposedly, immediately after the ambush, Hinton secretly marked the death car so that years to come he could tell the real car from the fakes. Somehow he knew the car's value would be an issue in the future. Great insight by Hinton. At one time it would be said that there was as many as seven fake death cars around the country.

OCM I'll email you a little later tonight. There's a guy near my town that has a "fake" Bonnie & Clyde death car. I've known of it for about thirty years or more. He wants to sell it. I'll email that to you.

OCM The photo you have is correct. It was taken at the Oklahoma City trial of the Urschel kidnapping defendants. It shows Kelly's Thompson. The Winchester and the two 1911's belonged to Harvey Bailey. All four guns were seized at the Paradise Texas raid. I have no idea where the front grip on Kelly's Thompson came from. Perhaps a modification from Wolf and Klar??? At the Dallas County jail, Bailey mentioned that the Winchester was the best deer hunting rifle he ever had. If I remember correctly, one 1911 was a army model and the other (left) was a commercial model. I have the serial numbers in my files. Albert Bates' Thompson was also on display at the OKCity trial.

I have not found any connection between Klar and Lebman in the Kelly files. One has to believe that they knew of each other at the very least. Mr. Klar, like Lebman, would modify specific guns. At this time, I believe Mr. Klar still has relatives in the Fort Worth area which I'm trying to locate. I have located where Albert Bates, Kelly's best friend, purchased his Thompson. Surprisingly, not at Klar's store.

Actually, She purchased it in Fort Worth after Mr. Klar personally telephoned her at her East Mulkey home. He just received it in his store and knew Kathryn wanted to buy one. George and Kathryn both frequent the Wolf and Klar store on Main Street. Also at that store, She purchased a 1903/1908 Colt 380 cal, nickel with pearl grips that was seized when George's Cadillac was found in Chicago.

Actually, I've been researching Kelly and others associated with him since the early 1980's. I have read through the Bureau files a few times. There's still a great deal about him that most people don't know. Recent books about him only cover the Urschel kidnapping which has been written about a few times. There's much more to George and Kathryn's story. After he was captured at Memphis, Kelly talked to the feds a lot. Once he mentioned that he preferred a horizontal grip. As a matter of fact, Kelly's 1921 Colt Thompson was seized at the Paradise, Texas raid on August 12, 1933. It had a horizontal foregrip that resembles a foregrip on a 1923 Thompson more than a Navy model. I know of only two photos of Kelly's Thompson and it's configuration at that time.

I have not found any Bureau documents that tell us how many of the Bureau Thompson had horizontal foregrips. Obviously, not all Bureau owned Thompson had horizontal foregrips. It's ironic, that the one gangster (Kelly) that preferred a horizontal grip was guarded by Thompsons that had horizontal grips.

I'm no expert, but there is a specific reason that Kelly was guarded by Thompsons with horizontal foregrips. Of course Kelly was guarded by Bureau of Investigation agents. By the time Kelly was captured, September 1933, the Bureau had twenty two Colt Navy Thompsons. These Thompsons were ordered specifically with horizontal foregrips as per the Assistant Director, Tolson. It was rumored that the reason for the horizontal foregrips was due to Hoover not wanting the Bureau Thompsons looking like "Gangster" guns. In reality, it was because the horizontal foregrip could be used with a sling. Local police departments probably purchased whatever the budget allowed or whatever was confiscated from local hoods.

There's been a set on GunBroker for a long time. I think he wants $2k for the set. No takers as of now. I believe it's all about condition and not necessarily about low serial numbers, unless the set is totally unfired. Then both, low serial number and condition would set a premium price.

Looks great. Keep the photos coming.

Is that house still standing? What is the history on that place? Bart.

I have a 39 round drum too. I've used about 6 or 7 clicks. It works good in my Kahr 1927A1. I've looked for instructions but have not found any on the web. It may take trial & error. Bart.

Yes, details of each would be great (with serial numbers). Thanks for the photos, Bart.

I think one is a west hurley for sure. The other I'll have to look at closer. It maybe a early Kahr. Did you bid on them too? I paid way too much but they will go into my collection for a long time. Bart

This may be like searching for the needle in a haystack, but I'm looking for a Kahr 100 round drum with the serial number 7435 or 435. I don't know if Kahr has made up to the seven thousand yet in 100 rnd drums. Anyway, please let me know if anyone can help. Thank you, Bart.