Tman

The mark in the second pic is a Czech proof mark for smokeless powder. This mark has been in use by the Prague proof house since 1931. The number '80' may be the proof number listed in the records of the proof house. The first pic may have the same Prague proof mark but its not too clear. Couldn't find anything on the BVS mark. All info was gathered from The Standard Directory of Proof Marks by Wirnsberger and The Official Guide to Gunmarks, 3rd ed. by Balderson

Derek at Sportsmans has done a couple of transfers for me in the past. Great guy to work with.

I'm on my second Sturdy Safe. Outgrew the first one. Take a look at their site and compare. Its what sold me. www.sturdysafe.com

The basement at Springfield is the place to visit. All kinds of goodies down there. Racks of T161's, T48's, prototypes of all sorts. They have sealed barrels of M1911 pistols.

Yep, still in H-town.

This issue was caused by some unsavory dealers who were turning a $4000 MAC10 into a $140,000 M249. Therefore, whenever the folks at NFA have any question regarding a transfer, they will send out a request for clarification. It may be a hassle but I think that the registry will be better and more accurate in the long run.

When I lived in the San Antonio area, I used to be part of the Living History Detachment at the Nimitz. I donated 4 lost souls to them including a Beretta 38/44 and a Hotchkiss M1914. That's a great museum!

I have been quietly assisting folks with this same problem for years. The most recent case the guy found a place in Washington state called Delta Gun Shop to help him. He said they did a great job for a reasonable price. Hopefully we'll save some more from the scrap heap this way.

None of the guns were able to be passed on to the family. If I can find a suitable home for the Lewis, it will be Form 10'd. Sad, I know.

This Lewis gun was recovered from a cow pasture in Wharton county, TX last year. The old boy died and rumor was he had some guns buried in the pasture. I was asked to be present to identify what, if anything, was dug up and recommend what to do with the items. About 4 feet down, we started to see plastic and tarp material. We pulled up 5 firearms, an H&R Handy Gun, a 20 gauge short barreled shotgun, an MP40, an MP44 and the Lewis. All the guns were wrapped in plastic sheeting but water had infiltrated and the guns were a total loss. The bores were solid rust. The Lewis was found in its transit case wrapped in plastic sheet. When opened, the odor of transmission fluid was overwhelming. We had noticed that the plastic sheeting was stained red on the other guns. The rusted guns were cut up on site. The Lewis was is really good shape. Attempts are being made to find a suitable museum to donate the gun to.

Got mine in an auction. An auctioneer friend was selling off an estate and the guy had a MAC10, a WH 28 and a silencer for the MAC. He asked me for advice on how to run the auction on the NFA items. I told him I would but he had to let me bid on it via mail as the auction was an inperson sale only. Well, a $4000 bid on the Westy won the day. A little extra money went to PK for his magic a year or so later. My Uzi, MP40, Stg44 and Handy Gun also came out of estates.

D, I sent the second copy to FTB as they didn't have one. The place I got them from is called Guncraft Books in Oak Ridge, TN. They had a web site but the domain expired in October. I contacted them by telephone and he said at the time that he bought all the remaining copies and he had a bunch. Google listed a phone of 865-934-2157. Good luck.

This is a great thread. I have corrected a couple of guns that I once owned. I purchased an MP40 and an MP44 from an estate and the form (4467) read 'German Military' for the manufacturer and ' burp gun' for the MP40. I researched the ordnance codes and sent in corrected Form 4's. At the time, the branch took it at face value. Now they may want photo evidence as to the markings and may want to see your research before correcting the registry. I think it's a great service to have the most accurate information in the registry. I know its a flawed system but any bit helps. My H&R M16A1 is registered as an H&R but it was first registered on a Form 2 by John Stemple as he was the one who remanufactured it prior to the cutoff. It should correctly read that he is the manufacturer but it doesnt. I haven't gotten around to correcting it as the branch is swamped with other priorities right now. Your TSMG may be registered on a Form 2 on a date that has not reached the 50 year mark. It may even show a manufacturer other that AO. That's where the hang up may come from. The first date a gun shows up on the registry, either on a Form 1 or 2, is it's 'born on' date and that's what the examiners see when the do the research on it. The current owner can do a FOIA on it and that may show a possible date of manufacture or a manufacturer name. There has been a lot of scrutiny lately with transfers steming from the scam some SOTs were doing with serial numbers. The examiners are giving each and every transfer a good look to see if any shenanigans are being pulled with MAC10 suddenly turning into M240G's or M2's. It all takes time to research and we all suffer for the actions of a couple of shady dealers.

Good to know about the new updated book. I just found a couple of copies of his first one. It helped alot with my purchase of a .410 Handy Gun this summer.

According to Wirnsberger's book on proof marks, the Crown over BM mark was used on rifled barrels of military arms from 1916 to 1925 and after 1925 on all proofed military arms. Barrels were proofed with cordite or sometimes with nitro powder. This mark was used by the Birmingham proof house.

One of the reasons this is being looked at is there have been cases where prohibited persons (felons, illegal aliens, etc) have used trusts to acquire NFA firearms. I personally know of one case where an illegal alien assumed a deceased infants identity and using a trust in that persons name registered three SBRs and four silencers. He was found out via fingerprints when arrested on an unrelated charge. There have been more of these incidents across the country. Exact numbers I cant quote but there have been enough to warrant a closer look.

The top gun looks like it has some early parts on it, i.e flat ejector, no hole mag release. Early Savage maybe?

TSMG oilers.bmp Found this site while looking for something else. These guys have the original style buttstock oiler for the M1921 and 1928. I haven't ordered from them but the Retro M16 folks on AR15.com have good things to say about the company. https://www.libertyt...9&idcategory=31 18 bucks aint too bad if they are original.

Greetings and Welcome!! Great pic of a couple of classics.

Robert, I highly doubt that the number after the IRS stamp is related to the original serial number. I'm assuming that the process was the same then as it is now. The number is likely just the next one on the master list. The suffix is a mystery to me. Sounds like a research project in the works.

A little more info on ATF issued serial numbers. For as long as I have been around, ATF has issued numbers starting with 'ATF'. The next 5 or 6 numbers correspond with the division that issued the number, i.e. 53100 (FY96 and before), 745400 (FY97-98) or 782000 (FY99 to present) for the Houston Field Division. The next numbers would be the number off the list kept by the division for issuance. I just got #189 issued to a Winchester 94 rifle that was recovered stolen property. Prior to ATF's existance in 1974, we issued numbers with the IRS prefix. We have a die set here that has an IRS stamp in it.

Jerrys is correct. Only if moving to another state.

I'm assuming by your screen name that you are from the Richmond TX area. I'm a WH28 owner in Montgomery County and would be more than happy to assist you with any questions you have on your new toy. Greg

I always use FedEx next day air. I have never had a problem with sending stuff. We used to use USPS Registered Mail at the office but now use Fed Ex for guns, etc going to the lab or FTB.

Bob, I would be willing to donate my barrel for 'science'. I have put a couple thousand rounds of Swanson blanks thru my barrel since I got the gun. The barrel also had a couple of squib rounds ring the barrel prior to me having it. I have slowed down my reenacting somewhat and I have an extra GI barrel that I can also send for threading in a trade for services deal. Lemme know. ~g~