Serial Number

[bigredone]

Hi guys

 

I am new to this forum, so please be gentle with me!

 

I am a reenactor in the UK and I reenact the 1st ID 16th IR F Company throughout WW2 period.

 

I have recent got my hands on a Grease gun and I am looking to date it, it does not have the Guide Lamp name stamped on it in the usual plase, but it looks WW2 to me.

 

Can anyone out there confirm if this a WW2 one.

 

Someone has filed something off under the US number?

 

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/CIMG3624.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/CIMG3625.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/CIMG3626.jpg

 

Best wishes

 

Paul

[jim c 351]

Hi guys

 

I am new to this forum, so please be gentle with me!

 

I am a reenactor in the UK and I reenact the 1st ID 16th IR F Company throughout WW2 period.

 

I have recent got my hands on a Grease gun and I am looking to date it, it does not have the Guide Lamp name stamped on it in the usual plase, but it looks WW2 to me.

 

Can anyone out there confirm if this a WW2 one.

 

Someone has filed something off under the US number?

 

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/CIMG3624.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/CIMG3625.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/CIMG3626.jpg

 

Best wishes

 

Paul

 

Hi Paul,

Your M3 certainly looks like a U.S. Guide Lamp.

It looks to me that all letters and numbers were ground off the magazine housing and new letters and new serial were hand stamped afterward.

Since it would be impossible for me to tell if the current serial number is the same as the original number , determining the year of manufacture would not be possible.

Acording to Frank Iannamico's book on the M3 , they were made in 3 years.

1943--85130

1944--343372

1945--178192

Recommend that you buy Franks book, available on this site.

Your very lucky to have such a nice firearm.

Jim C

[bigredone]

Hi Jim c

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

The plot thickens re the serial number, why would it have been re stamped?? there also looks to be a "5" remaining in the filed off section. I will have to do some more digging around.

 

I have ordered the Grease gun book from a dealer over here in the UK, I look forward to reading it.

 

Just to check is the oiler the exact same as the M1 Carbine oiler??? as I need to get one.

 

Best wishes

 

Paul

 

Ps On closer inspection of the photo I can see part of the ordanance mark that has been covereved over, the 5 as mentioned above is more or less directly below the re stamped last "5".........I am very curious now!

Edited January 23, 2008 by bigredone

[jim c 351]

Hi Jim c

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

The plot thickens re the serial number, why would it have been re stamped?? there also looks to be a "5" remaining in the filed off section. I will have to do some more digging around.

 

I have ordered the Grease gun book from a dealer over here in the UK, I look forward to reading it.

 

Just to check is the oiler the exact same as the M1 Carbine oiler??? as I need to get one.

 

Best wishes

 

Paul

 

Ps On closer inspection of the photo I can see part of the ordanance mark that has been covereved over, the 5 as mentioned above is more or less directly below the re stamped last "5".........I am very curious now!

 

Paul,

The M3 uses the US M1 carbine oiler and sling.

Perhaps you could share the history of your M3. There may be a clue in the guns history as to why it was altered .

It would also be interesting to know what you had to go thru to own a M3 in the U.K. Does the gun fire live ammo or only blanks? Does the M3 have any British proof or lend lease marks.

Jim C

[bigredone]

Jim C

 

History: Sorry, know nothing of it as it was a present, if I can find out where it was purchased I might be able to find out something...watch this space.

 

I can see no outher markings on the greaser, but will have another look, not sure what "lend lease" marks look like. Did you know it was only last year or the year before Britian made the last "lend lease" payment to the US!

 

This is what we call in the UK a deactivated to "old spec" weapon, which means it can be cocked and dry fired only, the firing pin is removed and the barrel is blocked off. A "new spec" deactivated weapon is where hardly nothing works on it as most of the moving parts are welded up.......that is the law over here. As far as I know there are very few examples of US WW2 type live/blank firing weapons over here.

 

Anyone can own a deactivated weapon, they are easy to get hold of over here. They are mainly imported ex US lend lease weapons to Russia WW2 stock. It is the live ones you have to have permission from the police to hold.

 

The latest is that the British government are trying to get all "old spec weapons" converted to "new spec" which would be disastrous to us collectors.

 

I have in my collection the following:

 

M1 Garand 1941

M1 Carbine 1943

BAR 1944

.30 cal Browning (mounted on the Jeep)

Thompson 1928

Thompson M1A1

Colt 1911

60mm Mortar

M1A1 Bazooka (reproduction, but exact replica)

M3 Grease gun

 

I am going to try and get over to visit the militaria "Show of shows" in Kentucky next year.

 

Best wishes

 

Paul

Edited January 23, 2008 by bigredone

[bigredone]

Hi

 

I have taken some more pictures of my unkown (as yet) M3.

 

Here are the pictures of all the numbers/markings I can find, the crossed swords are the british deactivation markings.

 

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100888.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100887.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100886.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100885.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100884.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100883.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100882.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100880.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100878.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100877.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100875.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100871.jpg

 

 

Now as you can see on the top of the magazine well I have now found the remainds of a "G" and to the botton left on the mag release guard is the remains of the "Guide" signature. This is where the plot thickens, in Franks Iannamico's book on page 66 (I wont reproduce the picture as I have not asked permission) it looks like my M3 had the same markings postion as the M3A1!!!??? although mine is a M3. As said before there are the remains of the ordanace stamp and of a "5" (looks like a 3 but im sure it is a 5) below the restamp 5.

 

Anyone????

 

Best wishes

 

Paul

[jim c 351]

Hi

 

I have taken some more pictures of my unkown (as yet) M3.

 

Here are the pictures of all the numbers/markings I can find, the crossed swords are the british deactivation markings.

 

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100888.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100887.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100886.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100885.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100884.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100883.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100882.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100880.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100878.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100877.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100875.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/bigredone/P1100871.jpg

 

 

Now as you can see on the top of the magazine well I have now found the remainds of a "G" and to the botton left on the mag release guard is the remains of the "Guide" signature. This is where the plot thickens, in Franks Iannamico's book on page 66 (I wont reproduce the picture as I have not asked permission) it looks like my M3 had the same markings postion as the M3A1!!!??? although mine is a M3. As said before there are the remains of the ordanace stamp and of a "5" (looks like a 3 but im sure it is a 5) below the restamp 5.

 

Anyone????

 

Best wishes

 

Paul

 

Hi Paul,

Your M3 is clearly a U.S. M3 Guide Lamp SMG. The serial numbers on later M3's were stamped, as pictured on page 66,the same place as the M3A1 guns.

I have no idea why someone felt the need to grind away all original letters and numbers and restamp a serial number. It either has something to do with U.K. law or perhaps the gun was stolen from U.S. troops during WW11 and altered to hinder any investigation. Who knows, maybe it was stolen from the BIG RED ONE.

 

I have only had my M3 since 12-07. It was apparently a lend lease gun loaned to England. It is painted black and has a Crown over c/p. It also has a mag release guard welded on the mag housing. If you look under "new M3 owner" you will see a picture of it on this site.

 

M3's are not as common as other guns, such as the Thompson or Sten, in this country. That is why I'm the only one trying to help you. If you would have ask a question about your M1928 you would have had a dozen people chime in.

 

If you should see any M3's with a welded mag guard like mine , let me know.

Jim C

p.s. I imagine you already know that the 6 didget numbers along with G.L. are part numbers.

[bigredone]

Thanks for the info Jim c, I am going to a militaria show this coming Sunday and I will have a look out for a "Brit" grease gun and try and take some pictures for you.

 

In the last year I have seen loads of grease guns for sale over here in the UK, but I did hear the stock coming out of Russia was drying up.

 

Best wishes

 

Paul

[bigredone]

Hi all

 

After speaking to a gun dealer It looks like my Grease gun, along with others was sold to China at some point where all the marking were removed and during the 1980/90's they were brought and imported to the UK by a british gun dealer.

 

Mystery solved??????

 

Best wishes

 

Paul