Savage 1921 Thompson

[darrylta]

The only GI parts on it presently is the barrel, Lyman rear site, AOC ring front site and pistol grip.

The remaining components are all nice Colt, including the rear butt stock (complete) and vertical front grip.

-Darryl

[TD.]

This is an old thread that I am bringing to the top again. Aside from the Savage Model of 1921 overstamp in the Hill collection, has anyone seen or heard about others. It seems I have read about another one somewhere. Any help out there?

 

It was very busy at the All Thompson Show & Shoot this year but I did manage to take a close enough look at this Savage Thompson to determine the dulite finish and barrel are original. It is certainly an interesting Thompson that deserves more study.

[bmarvin]

Perhaps the semi Savage 27 designed to look like the Colt 27?

It was owned by James Bannan

 

[TD.]

bmarvin,

S-1-XL is certainly another fascinating Savage Thompson variation. It would be very interesting if another Savage Model of 1927 appears someday. It needs to be kept in mind when discussing all Savage variations. Thank you for sharing.

 

I am trying to find out if there are other Savage Model of 1921 overstamps in existence. I did note that Doug Richardson makes reference to this unique variation in his book, Thompson Technical, Volume 1 second edition, on page 12. Unfortunately, no information about specific examples are included. If others exist, I feel certain someone on this Board will know!

[TD.]

I spoke to Doug about his reference to a Model of 1921 Savage Thompson in his book. He checked his files and found information relating to S-150282 when it was in the possession of a prior owner. Doug believes he knew of another 1921 Savage before S-150282 surfaced years ago in the Thompson community, but he cannot find a reference to another one in his files. This makes one, possibly two in existence. With the wealth of knowledge and history on this Board I am surprised no one has chimed in.

[buzz]

I worked in a factory.

 

In my experience, factory work is done in a frenzy of production and nothing else. Cost and expediency is what governs all decisions.

 

Pride of craftsmanship is replaced by the need to have 2,880 soldered connections pass inspection per day per soldering station.

 

Take a look at films of old-time factory workers on the job. They are all doing the operations literally as fast as they can be done.

 

 

That's why you buy a 2016 car but it might have 2014 model year brake assemblies on it. Because that's what it took to keep the cars rolling down the assembly line. Nobody at Ford could care less if the car has the current model year brakes on it or not.

 

It's also why a contractor will buy $50,000 worth of lumber to build a temporary wall and then bury the wall. Because who cares about salvaging lumber on a $75M construction job?

 

 

Savage made how many Thompsons? 600K? How many per day? 500?

 

A box of 100 old Colt mystery receivers probably would have been nothing to them except a nuisance to throw in the scrap bin.

 

Suppose you were at the current Colt factory and you found a box of 100 M16 receivers from 1996. They wouldn't know if they were good or bad and they would go in the trash.

 

 

Based on my own factory work experience, I definitely can picture Savage using leftover Colt parts on their guns and calling it good.

 

But I don't picture them using old Colt receivers unless they could just throw the receivers into the production line and forget about them.

 

 

That's my unsupported and speculative hot air on the topic.

Edited September 16, 2016 by buzz

[buzz]

The use of colt stuff by savage is an interesting riddle.

 

 

I've been told that Savage Commercial guns that went to police departments have a slightly higher grade of fit and finish and more Colt parts.

 

Is that because Savage was still using up Colt parts at random in 1940, or because they were putting the pretty looking Colt parts on their domestic commercial sales?

 

 

I have a verified Commercial that was owned by a US police department, and it does have a Colt buttstock on it. It's a 17,000 serial number so that's about 2,000 guns after the start of production.

 

Unless the first 2,000 guns all have Colt buttstocks on them, then that would tend to show that Savage stuck the Colt stock on this gun on purpose because it was a commercial sale.

 

But on the other hand, I know for a fact that the police department owned two Thompsons, and the other one was a Colt.

 

So it could be that the buttstocks were swapped. The Colt, wherever it is, might be sporting a Savage stock.

 

All the other parts on my 28 are Savage marked.

 

 

Maybe the Savage police guns that are sporting Colt parts were just contaminated by the other Colt Thompsons that the police departments owned.

 

Or it could be that they just had Colt parts because Savage was using up the parts.

 

Or it could be that savage was dressing up the commercial guns with the prettier colt parts

 

These guns were just a normal consumer product when they were in service, nobody would have cared about the collectability or originality.

 

 

 

Interestingly, the Thompson in the Donnington museum collection in England is only 300 serial numbers away from mine, and it supposedly has some Colt internal parts.

 

But mine does not.

 

Was it contaminated with parts from some other Colt Thompson or did it ship out that way?

Edited September 16, 2016 by buzz

[bug]

The use of colt stuff by savage is an interesting riddle.

 

 

I've been told that Savage Commercial guns that went to police departments have a slightly higher grade of fit and finish and more Colt parts.

 

Is that because Savage was still using up Colt parts at random in 1940, or because they were putting the pretty looking Colt parts on their domestic commercial sales?

 

 

I have a verified Commercial that was owned by a US police department, and it does have a Colt buttstock on it. It's a 17,000 serial number so that's about 2,000 guns after the start of production.

 

Unless the first 2,000 guns all have Colt buttstocks on them, then that would tend to show that Savage stuck the Colt stock on this gun on purpose because it was a commercial sale.

 

But on the other hand, I know for a fact that the police department owned two Thompsons, and the other one was a Colt.

 

So it could be that the buttstocks were swapped. The Colt, wherever it is, might be sporting a Savage stock.

 

All the other parts on my 28 are Savage marked.

 

 

Maybe the Savage police guns that are sporting Colt parts were just contaminated by the other Colt Thompsons that the police departments owned.

 

Or it could be that they just had Colt parts because Savage was using up the parts.

 

Or it could be that savage was dressing up the commercial guns with the prettier colt parts

 

These guns were just a normal consumer product when they were in service, nobody would have cared about the collectability or originality.

 

 

 

Interestingly, the Thompson in the Donnington museum collection in England is only 300 serial numbers away from mine, and it supposedly has some Colt internal parts.

 

But mine does not.

 

Was it contaminated with parts from some other Colt Thompson or did it ship out that way?

 

Interesting topic and post, Buzz. I think our own TD would have some very good insight on this.

 

Bob D

[Paladin601]

So what would a Savage 1921 offer over the 1928?

 

Better finish and fitting of parts? Better Furniture? No sling swievels?

 

Military weapons are not known for their beauty, would it be made to appeal to the private owner?

[darrylta]

I've read that the initial AOC contract wrote for Savage to continue the TGun linage stated that they were to match

the fit and finish as close as they could to the original Colt guns. Savage was not held to the carbonia finish standard.

Darryl

[Paladin601]

I've read that the initial AOC contract wrote for Savage to continue the TGun linage stated that they were to match

the fit and finish as close as they could to the original Colt guns. Savage was not held to the carbonia finish standard.

Darryl

Thanks, that makes sense.

 

When were these made or offered?

[buzz]

My early Savage Commercial is a very nicely made gun and has a better fit and finish than my late war M1A1.

 

But the 28 does have fine milling marks on it and a flat dulite finish.

 

I don't see any effort on the gun to come anywhere close to the Colt commercial-grade fit and finish.

 

 

By the way, I'm not playing the expert, I'm just kicking the topic around.

Edited September 17, 2016 by buzz