M50 Intermittent Firing

[jhm]

Thought I would run this problem by everybody for some advice. The (2nd) Reising M50 I got, when you pull the trigger on full-auto it will run about 5 or 6 rounds and stops, then I would let up on the trigger and then repull the trigger and it would fire about 3 more rounds and stop again, I would let up on the trigger and repull the trigger and (1) round would fire let off repull and (1) round would fire then let up again a repull the trigger and it would fire the rest till empty mag. I have replaced the springs, firing pin and cleaned and oiled, parts looks good. Have tried 3 differant Mags. Acts the same no matter witch mag. I have other mags but have not tried them because thoes mag run great in my other Reising, it don't miss a beat!

 

I took it out of the stock and put it upside down on the bench and held the trigger and worked the action bar it cycled fine when you let the action bar foward hard enough to make the bolt (cam) and the hammer drop. But if you go slower it would stop and not let the hammer drop.Then you would pull the action foward the last little bit the bolt would (cam) and hammer would drop. The first Reising that runs perfect, put it on the bench and it acted the same way!!

 

So if someone could give me some suggestions would be appreciated!

 

Ask me for more info about it if that helps.........

 

Thanks....JHM

[jim c 351]

JHM,

You didn't say if it works perfect on semi, so for the time being we will assume it does.

For some reason the action bar is not retuning to battery with enough speed to activate the trip lever.

Maybe something in the stock is interfering with the trip lever movement. So the first hing to do is switch stocks and see if it works properly with the other stock.

 

Second possibility is a very hard trigger pull. This could be the result of using really strong Wolff springs for hammer or trigger springs. The trip lever just can't over power the trigger pull. replace these spring with the weakest springs that you have.

 

Try these suggestions, then report back.

Jim C

[RankStranger]

I was getting some erratic firing in my Reising once and my bumper plug was losening up . I had gotten a plug that did not have any detent holes to hold the plug in place . I replaced the plug with one that had the detent holes and tightened it up snug and the erratic firing problem was solved .

[jhm]

Jim C

It does run just fine in semi auto! does not miss a beat.

 

I did not try another stock, I have one and will try it! Thanks...

 

RankStranger

I looked and it seems tight. It is a one piece plug!

 

 

Thank you both,

 

jhm

[jhm]

OH! also I did leave the old spring on the trigger!

 

just wanted to add that

 

Thanks

 

jhm

[jim c 351]

jhm,

If you have a very hard trigger pull, combined with a sluggish feed up the ramp , it could slow the foreward movement enough so the trip isn't activated.

Also make sure that your left hand isn't being rubbed by the action bar.

Jim C

[emmagee1917]

My gun did the same after putting in Wolff springs. Left the action spring ( under barrel spring ) as Wolff , replaced the others with GI ones , problem went away. I feel the added stiffness of the hammer spring was slowing the bolt travel and causing a minor short stroke which lead to not enough speed to release the sear ( added to the increased force needed by the Wolff sear and lever springs to be released ) . Because you are using the one piece plug , you are prob'ly not lined up completely through your bolt stroke . This will also add a binding to the smoothness of the stroke and slow things a tad.

Because your gun works on semi , this too points to this cause , as the slowness will build from shot to shot over the string till it reaches the critical point and causes a stoppage . Also , the stronger springs may be pulling your trigger finger forward as it tires during the burst , leading to the sear riding the bolt's bottom , slowing it down , or even catching the hammer causing an unintensional stop.

Change the springs and , if needed , go to a two piece cap/guide .

Chris

[jhm]

OK,

Thanks everbody for all the info!

I should be able to get busy with it this week and fire it by the weekend.

 

Will be posting after testing.......with a update!

 

so thanks again,

jhm

[jhm]

OK,

I was able to go and shoot the Reising after changing the stock and replacing the new hammer spring with the old one!

And i am sorry to say it did not shoot any differant, it still would not put any more than 3 rounds in a row together. I don't know what else to do. Their is nothing that I see that is making it do this? I'm sure it is something small and simple. But I do not know what. So if anybody has anymore sugestions please send them on! I used 6 differant mags and then put them in my other Reising and they shot perfect. Semi auto shot just fine.

 

Thanks, jhm

[emmagee1917]

Functions fine in semi . Functions fine in three shot-ish bursts. Will not function past that. The reising FA fuctioning has been described as a series of semi-auto shots , one after another.

This would be indictive of the gun out-running the mag feed or a stacking up of a tolerance during the string.

If you are closing hammer down on an empty chamber you are outrunning your mags . But you said this was not the case.

If you are stopping with a round fully seated in the barrel and the bolt fully closed but hammer stuck back , that means something is sucking away power so that the action bar is not closing with enough umph to pull the sear bar forward and release the hammer .

Did you replace the three other little springs back to the old ones as well as the hammer spring ? If not , try it with those replaced. If it still does not work , replace the last spring. If it still doesn't work , we'll have to look at other parts.

With springs out , does the hammer and bolt move without roughness or binding ? What about the action bar ? Clearance around mag well , studs , etc. ? Finally , with only the bolt/hammer/hammer spring / bumper plug / action bar / magwell in place , do you still have a smooth cycle or is it rougher than without the hammer spring / bumper plug . ( I know the spring will cause a difference , but we are looking for mis-alignment friction / binding / roughness ) They went with the two piece bumper plug because of thier problem of alligning the spring guide with the hammer/bolt path throughout it's movement range. The floating guide allowes the spring to find it's own center during the cycle and also traps the rear of the spring to help maintain a vertical column up the guide post.

I'll agree it's just an anoying little problem . We'll lick it.

Chris

[RankStranger]

If it were me and since you have another Reising , I would try taking the bolt out of the one that functions and place in the troublsome one and see if that bolt will work . Or change out the action bars . It is nice that you have two and can possibly switch parts out until you can get it to cycle properly .

[jhm]

emmagee1917,jim c,

Thanks for the suggestions and RankStranger yours to. Back when I tested it with the differant stock & old hammer spring that day they were quick changes I could do because of limited time I had that day. And I thought it would make the differance. So I have not had the chance to the other changes and things to see if I can get her to run 100%. Will be getting out with it soon!

Thanks everybody....jhm

[jhm]

OK, wanted to update work on Reising!

I have tore it down and tried differant things: like no springs in it, just working the action bar and felt a little rubbing between the mag well and the top of the action bar, not real bad, so oiled it good seemed alot better. I also found a couple of small burrs on the bolt, thought I had checked it good, but??. So I filed them down with a very fine file and polished. I also looked inside the reciever and polished the edge of where the bolt cam's up, seem's to lock up nice and smooth now. The main thing I think is the spring under the sear is so strong that the Action Bar can't pull the Auto Bar enough to release the Hammer and let it keep firing. So I put the weekest spring I could fine in it. When I cycle the action bar now it comes back and cams the bolt very easy. So I belive it will keep firing now.

Will shoot it tomorrow and post what happens!

[dalbert]

Keep in mind that Reising parts were hand fitted at H&R. They were not designed to be completely interchangeable. This is what the U.S. Marines found out at Guadalcanal when they started cleaning their Reisings communally, and parts got switched. In my opinion, the bolt is the part that requires the most hand fitting, so it makes sense that yours needed some adjustment. My guess is that your 2nd Reising has a replacement bolt. I would be careful about keeping track of your parts between the two Reisings.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

 

 

 

[jhm]

Got to shoot it today. First, I did not change out any parts except a spring under the sear (sear spring) and I thought that when the action bar was not pulling the auto bar far enough to make the sear let the hammer fall that weakaning the spring would make it easier for the action to pull on the sear, also I thought the burrs gone from the Bolt and it lubed, eyeball everthing to make sure nothing was binding. Hand cycle it and the action bar comes back and the Bolt cams into place and the hammer drops very easily. So Im thinking this is it! I think I got it...........

 

Well, shot it and it was doing the same thing! Pull the trigger and shoots about 3 to 4 rounds and then 1 then 2 then......

 

Anyway not freaking out just needs a little something. Just don't know what it is yet!

[jhm]

Oh yea,

I do have a 2pc. plug comming for it.

Should be here this week.

I was going to wait to shoot it

with the new plug in it but you know how it goes.

 

jhm

 

 

[emmagee1917]

Well , if it was a 1919A4 , I'd say it would be a simple timing problem. I don't think you can time a Reising , it's full auto is more like a series of semi-auto shots . I thought you would have solved it with that little spring replacement. Wait and try it with the floating spring guide. If that does not cure it , my next guess would be to have the headspace checked to see if it's too tight , but that's a grasping at staws long shot.

If you flip between full and semi without pulling the slide back a hair you can bend the safety arm a smidge . You might check that and the other arms for straightness. If you still have problems , you may have to resort to pulling the stock after it stops ( DANGER-round in chamber , be careful ) and see where everything has stopped at. Might give you a clue as to the problem , just don't shoot yourself or others .

Chris

[GUNGUY45]

Thought I would run this problem by everybody for some advice. The (2nd) Reising M50 I got, when you pull the trigger on full-auto it will run about 5 or 6 rounds and stops, then I would let up on the trigger and then repull the trigger and it would fire about 3 more rounds and stop again, I would let up on the trigger and repull the trigger and (1) round would fire let off repull and (1) round would fire then let up again a repull the trigger and it would fire the rest till empty mag. I have replaced the springs, firing pin and cleaned and oiled, parts looks good. Have tried 3 differant Mags. Acts the same no matter witch mag. I have other mags but have not tried them because thoes mag run great in my other Reising, it don't miss a beat!

 

 

 

Mine acted similar to this when I got it.

I ended up trying to fire it with the selector switch removed.

It ran great, I replaced the selector, and it's run fine since.(1994)

Mine is the only gun I ever heard of needing a new selector.

 

Pete A.

 

WARNING: it's full auto only with out the selector, and of course, no safety.

Edited June 19, 2012 by GUNGUY45

[jhm]

Well got the 2pc. plug and went out and shot it and........it acted the same way.

It would only put 2 shots together at a time. I am going to put all new springs back in it!

 

I am going to check everything again and take my time to make sure nothing bent and really look close at everything again!

 

 

I like the idea of taking the stock off "carefully" just after it stops firing to see where everthing is at!

 

Will update soon!

[jhm]

OK,

after my last post, I have put all new springs in and looked at everything again with the weapon i have went out and shot it a about 3 more times. Things were the same. Well, went back out to the range this morning and was thinking about what had happen each and every trip, the Reising would start out shooting and the rate of fire would slow down and stop with bolt almost closed but not camed all the way back in battery. I have tried many differant mags about 5 blued 20rd. and 2 Christie 30rd. and every now and then It would string about 8 to 10 rds.together, apeared the mags were dragging the bolt and slowing it down. Kinda aggravated, and about ready to leave the range. I had a ulgy parked 20rd. mag that I never had shot yet because it fit very loosely.So never bothered to take it to shoot. Well I had put it in the range bag and decided to load it up to be the last 20rds. of ammo and leave.

Inserted the ulgy thing and pointed it down range and pulled the trigger and HOLY S##T!!! it ran like dream......all 20 rounds..... I'm standing there with my mouth hangging open! Didn't want to freak out, just one mag! Sooo I didn't leave yet, loaded up the same mag again.......pulled the trigger and ripped through 20rds. again, ran like a sewing machine. Standing there smile'n! I went through another 120rds. before I left! Now I know it's a mag problem. Will look at all the mags not sure what to look for. But could be spring or mag well not sure!

So Glad to be able to post this! feel better about this Reising! My other has always run like a top very proud of them both now!

 

Will update next time I fire it!

[jim c 351]

jhm,

If you continue to endeavour to persevere eventually you will be victorious. Someday the gun will run perfectly. But you have probably already realized that if your life was at risk on the canal you would have traded your older sister for a M1 carbine or TSMG.

The Marines didn't have the luxury of months of tinkering and so they threw them away.

Jim C

[jhm]

I love history and WWII history! And all the old SMG's! Your right! I can understand why the Marine's wanted something else at the time! But,they are just toys to us. I would not trust any 70yr. old firearm with my life today. Now my '86 MG's or my other modern firearm's. Yep! As quick as they were manufactured for war time and if they would have spent as much time with the Reising as they did say with the M16, history could be differant for some of these!

[jim c 351]

I love history and WWII history! And all the old SMG's! Your right! I can understand why the Marine's wanted something else at the time! But,they are just toys to us. I would not trust any 70yr. old firearm with my life today. Now my '86 MG's or my other modern firearm's. Yep! As quick as they were manufactured for war time and if they would have spent as much time with the Reising as they did say with the M16, history could be differant for some of these!

 

jhm,

You make a good point. Our leaders had to make the M16 work or suffer extreme embarrassment. Our leaders just didn't care about the Reising and its inventor. In reality the Reising wasn't a good front line firearm. The carbine and the Thompson were good weapons , then and now, 70 years later.

Jim C

[emmagee1917]

A mag fitting loose works , tight mags don't . I'd think that the mag catch is setting a little high , holding the "good" mags too high up , allowing the lips to drag on the bolt , slowing it up , which slows the action bar , just when the springs are at thier weakest , and just when the speed is needed to trip the hammer . It could also stop the bolt from locking up and allowing the hammer to fall around the pin rather than on it , but the hammer is not freed till the very end of the lockup , so that may be impossible .

Like the semi-thompsons , you may need to get a spare mag release and file on it or try a different mag housing.

Chris

 

Another thought.....the looseness may allow the mag to move and self-correct a minor feed alignment problem between the mags and the feed ramp , removing some binding / friction.

[jhm]

jim c,

I agree 100%...

 

emmagee1917,

Will have to look at the mag well and mag catch soon. The other day, i had to get back home. Wife wanted to go somewhere and do something. Will get back on it soon. At least it seem's to be running like it should! I really have not spent that much time on it thus far. Just go long periods of time between doing anything with it. Any body that has messed with a reising know's there is not much to taking them apart and putting them back together. Will post when i get back to it!

 

jhm