15 replies to this topic

[swiss_tommy_gunner]

Hi

I'm from Switzerland and I have buy a Full-Auto M1A1 Thompson from WW2 for 1400.- CHF (1100$).
It intersts me what the typical price for a M1A1 Thompson in the United States is.

Greetings from Switzerland
swiss_tommy_gunner

PS: Sorry for my English

[Lancer]

STG,
Welcome to the board. It's always interesting to get input on the European perspective of TSMG's.
Here's a link to a Tommy posted on Strum. It looks like a very nice M-1 but over priced at $20K.

http://www.sturmgewe....cgi?read=59080

[swiss_tommy_gunner]

Wow, this prices are a "little" higher.
The laws in Switzerlands are fortunately not strictly in comparison with other european countries.
To buy a fully automatic weapon you have to request a "exception-grant", because fully automatic weapons are forbidden.
But every one who is not registred in the criminal record office(Strafregister) gets the "exception-grant", but only for collectors purposes, not to shoot!! You can fully automatic weapons only shoot at granted special events, wich are rare. The other possibility is to shoot at a shooting range you trust . And when you have a fully automatic weapon you have to store the weapon seperated from the bolt and the bolt have to be in a safe. That is controlled by the police who comes every two years.
This is actually a contradiction, because we have a miliz army and nearly every swiss man get a fully automatic "Sturmgewehr 90" (sig 550) assault rifle, wich we "have to" keep at home. And this weapons aren't subordinate to the weapon law.(Including all ordonance weapons K11,K31,Stgw57,P75...).
When you cut the bolt and weld the barrel, the weapon becomes a normal thing like a broom.
The law for not fully automatic weapons is easy you need a grant for every weapon you want to buy, wich you also get when you not registred in the criminal record office.
Hand to hand weapon sales under normal citizens needs only a contract between the saler and the buyer, which we have to keep for 10 years.

Ich spreche Schweizer-deutsch, schreibe aber in normalem Deutsch. Du sprichst aber auch gut Deutsch.

[swiss_tommy_gunner]

What me interest too is, whether you can shoot your full automatic guns every time you want.

Well shot.
swiss tommy gunner

[Jay Baker]

Shoot anytime we want, generally. But, finding the time is the biggest problem. There's an indoor range just 10 minutes away, but I prefer to shoot outside which means traveling to an outdoor range over 90 minutes away. I usually shoot only 2-3 times a year. To squeeze in more "trigger time", I took up reenacting, but so far only made one event in the last 8 months. Too much work to do.

[hawksnest]

swiss_tommy_gunner: In order for an individual to own a full automatic weapon in the U.S. You first must live in one of the states that permits ownership. I live in the state of Ohio, which is a state that permits full auto weapons. Second, you must find someone who owns a transferrable full auto weapon who wants to sell it. There are approximately 180,000 full auto weapons that are transferrable to an individual. Due to a Federal law passed in 1986 no more transferrable (to an individual) weapons can ever be made. Next you and the seller must agree on the price and how the payment is to be made (all money up front or partial payment with the balnce due upon the U.S. Government approval of the transfer). Next you must be fingerprinted, photographed, fill out an application, have the chief law enforcement officer in the City or County where you live sign the form. Then you send two completed application for transfer forms with photgraphs and two fingerprint cards and a check for $200.00 (to pay the tax imposed by the government) and another form where you certify you are a U.S. citizen to the U.S. Government. Next you wait and wait, and wait, and wait. The Federal Bureau of Investigation checks your fingerprints and the B.A.T.F. checks the application for correctness and to see if the weapon is a registered tranferrable weapon. Finally after about 90 - 120 days your application is approved and then and only then you can pick up you full auto gun. You are also required by law to store the weapon in a safe place and to promptly report a theft or loss. In Ohio I can shoot my full auto any time I want to (although the neighbors get upset if you shoot in the middle of the night).

[Hawkeye_Joe]

QUOTE (Jay Baker @ May 9 2005, 05:55 PM)

Shoot anytime we want, generally. But, finding the time is the biggest problem. There's an indoor range just 10 minutes away, but I prefer to shoot outside which means traveling to an outdoor range over 90 minutes away. I usually shoot only 2-3 times a year. To squeeze in more "trigger time", I took up reenacting, but so far only made one event in the last 8 months. Too much work to do.

Jay yer lucky to have ranges that will allow NFA weapons at all. I have to shoot in the back pasture at the ranch when none of my horse boarders are here. No indoor/outdoor ranges that allow weapons within 2 hours drive from me. And I'm into re-enacting WWII now also and have only been able to attend one thing so far.

[Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner]

QUOTE

This is actually a contradiction, because we have a miliz army and nearly every swiss man get a fully automatic "Sturmgewehr 90" (sig 550) assault rifle, wich we "have to" keep at home. And this weapons aren't subordinate to the weapon law.(Including all ordonance weapons K11,K31,Stgw57,P75...).

Got to love a country that says you 'have to' keep your Sturmgewher at home.

[swiss_tommy_gunner]

Here a few pics for you from a great event in the mountains. The three pics from the target that we work on with four sig 550s in full auto are nice. The tracers in night are also pretty cool.
Pic1
Pic2
Pic3
Pic4
Pic5
Pic6
Pic7
Pic8

From where in Switzerland came your Grandfather PhilOhio? Maybe in mine sew.
What means actually Calass III?

I envy you because you guys can shoot your tommys if you want, I had mine since 2 months and hadn't shoot it yet. Maybe I can shoot it in 4 weeks and then I'm the happiest man on earth.

[Z3BigDaddy]

I'm voting for pic #5... that is wack!!

[Lancer]

STG,
Great pics. Thanks for sharing. I especially like #1. Now that is what I call a bullet trap.
Generally speaking, Class III means full auto weapons.

[TactAdv]

"...Quite a few people in this country would give just about anything to be able to own and keep a SIG 550 at home.."

-------------------------------------
Well, I can't say quite that exactly, but I DO keep both a SIG 551-2 SWAT and 552 at home here!! These are, of course, Post-86 DS guns, but still the real thing.
We got the first 4 of these in the country about two years ago, 2 each of the 551-2's (11.5" BBL)and 552's(8.5" BBL) each with both sight options, the normal fixed sights and versions in each model of the flat top without sights for use with optics.

My company, Gemtech, is the official supplier to SIG USA for suppressors for the 55X series rifles. We got the guns for R&D purposes and developed suppressors for them. Interestingly, the 552 is basically not suppressable as the gas system vents so much into the atmosphere as to render the actual value of sound suppression, even with an normally excellent suppressor, to be less than ideal. The 550-551 guns are far superior platforms for suppression.

These guns are unbelievably well made!! Oh yeah, and I can shoot them fullauto anytime (and generally anywhere) I want, which is usually in the suppressed mode. This is STILL the best country in the world to own MG's in!!
-TomH/Gemtech

www.gem-tech.com

[Diane]

The class III that you sometimes hear is in reference to the license that is required to own a fully functional automatic weapon.

There are different types of licenses that we have here in the states. And each one pertains to a little different type of weapon or for the manufacture of such weapons.

Therefore, a class III is talking about a fully auto weapon and not all of the people in the U.S.A. can own one. And it’s getting quite expensive to even obtain such a license.

As for the price of the Thompson that you are talking about that you might purchase. That is a very good buy and if it is fully functional you should not feel like you would be paying too much for it.

Best of luck,
Diane

[swiss_tommy_gunner]

Pathfinder
As I look out of the window this morning I saw a few people and they were very lively, so I can guarantee you there is still someone alive in Switzerland(at last me) but thats generally a interessting topic that you mention. Here a few numbers: in the year 2001 died 47 people by firearms in Switzerland.(suicides not included) So I think thats not much and I can fell me secure. (inhabitants of Switzerland: 7.5 Millions.)
Thanks for this great invitation, 5000 people with machineguns on one place thats what I like. When I come to the States and I think that will be not all to far I come back on that.
Du sprichst wirklich nicht schlecht Deutsch. StG 44 Munition zu bekommen ist hier so gut wie unmöglich geschweige, dass Sturmgewehr selber. Ich habe leider noch nie eins selber gesehen.
Weiterhin Gut Schuss.

PhilOhio
Thanks for the interessting familly history that you sent me, I think the town must be in the sew of Basel, there come the borders together.
Yes, the sig 510s (Sturmgewehr 57) are very good shooters I have one from my father, he get it for his service in the army and it shoots still very well. It makes me proud when I here such a good feedback from the land of shooters about our weapons. Unfortunately SIG also dont produce more 510s in Switzerland.

And thanks for all this Informations to all others.

[swiss_tommy_gunner]

First, yes thats possible I own for example the Stgw57 from my father and the K31 from my grandfather.
To clear all misunderstandings about that subject. Here the whole course:
When you are become eightteen you must go to the "Aushebung" there you are tested and on the basis of the results we become a function in the army assigned. Then when you are between nineteen and twenty we have to go in the Rekrutenschule (Recruitschool) for 21 weeks, there you get your personal Sturmgewehr and after the recruitschool you take it home. Then you have all years a "Widerholungskurs"(repetitioncourse) which goes 3 weeks. Between the "Widerholungskurs" you have to shoot the "Obligatorische" (obligatory-program) thats a program over twenty rounds on a 300 Meter distance. You can shoot the "Obligatorische" in every 300 Meter shooting range in the country.
The service-obligation ends when you are 30-40 Years old and then you can decide if you want keep the Sturmgewehr or not. From this moment you own the weapon and you can do with it, what you want (give it your son). But from this moment the weapon is also converted to semi-automatic .
When we are seventeen and you can't wait to get a Sturmgewehr like I did it, then you can make a "Jungschützenkurs" (Youngshooterscourse) there you learn to shoot it and keep it and you get for the duration of the "Jungschützenkurs" a fully automatic Sturmgewehr.

For the sig 510s lovers here a custom pic:

Thats a short version of the 510 named 57 Commando.

[swiss_tommy_gunner]

Thank you all very much for the interest in swiss shooting and also for the information about the american way of shooting.
I have enjoied to talk about shooting with people from oversea.

All the best
STG