Anyone Getting Static?

[Big Al]

This question is for owners of WWI-era blued finish BARs. I was reading a book called 'Firearms in American History: Our Rifles' by Charles W. Sawyer, which is one Hell of a volume, by the way (free for download on Google here: http://books.google.com/books?id=TYlCAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:%22Charles+Winthrop+Sawyer%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=2_IAUu_PCM_F4APjw4BI&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false). Anyway, in the passage discussing the BAR (find it by searching machine rifle), Sawyer says that while firing, there is static electricity generated and its discharge can be felt by the shooter. Has anybody ever experienced this while firing their rifle?

[emmagee1917]

Huh ! Well , maybe . I just thought shooting long full auto bursts would natually give you a .........uhhh........you know.

Maybe the 250 rd dump out of a water cooled might magnify the charge being around water and all. The shock must be transmitted through the face , because the muscles that control the corners of the mouth usually can be seen to contract a few seconds after exposure and can last a while.

Dr Chris

[RoscoeTurner]

Glad my BAR is Parkerized.

[Big Al]

Huh ! Well , maybe . I just thought shooting long full auto bursts would natually give you a .........uhhh........you know.

Maybe the 250 rd dump out of a water cooled might magnify the charge being around water and all. The shock must be transmitted through the face , because the muscles that control the corners of the mouth usually can be seen to contract a few seconds after exposure and can last a while.

Dr Chris

I see what you did there, emmagee.

Glad my BAR is Parkerized.

And Roscoe, I was also thinking that Parkerizing might act as an insulator, though I am not entirely certain on that.

 

Sorry for not including a page number before. It is the last paragraph of page 203 where the static electricity is mentioned.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Big Al

[Big Al]

darrylta,

 

Don't you have a WWI-era BAR? Have you shot it at all? Have you noticed this phenomenon talked about in the book linked above?

[RoscoeTurner]

 

Glad my BAR is Parkerized.

And Roscoe, I was also thinking that Parkerizing might act as an insulator, though I am not entirely certain on that.

 

Sorry for not including a page number before. It is the last paragraph of page 203 where the static electricity is mentioned.

 

I said that as a joke because I do not believe any part of that story.

[Big Al]

What makes you think I am making this up? Read the passage in the last paragraph of page 203 of the linked book. This is not anything I am making up. I am only trying to verify what an author noted in 1920 when the book was written and stimulate some intelligent conversation on this rather under-trafficked section of the board.

 

There is no need to be facetious.

[RoscoeTurner]

The writer of a book published in 1920 is the one who made it up. Think about it, what is so different in a BAR from other machine guns that would cause it to generate static electricity when others don't? Nothing.

 

 

What makes you think I am making this up? Read the passage in the last paragraph of page 203 of the linked book. This is not anything I am making up. I am only trying to verify what an author noted in 1920 when the book was written and stimulate some intelligent conversation on this rather under-trafficked section of the board.

 

There is no need to be facetious.

[jim c 351]

Once, while carrying my blued Thompson, and walking barefoot across a thick rug, I got a shock when I touched the door knob.

This never happened while carrying my parkerized Thompson.

Jim C

[emmagee1917]

It might have happened .

In the house I grew up in , which was concrete slab , railroad tie walls with chicken wire and plaster covering , had a front porch. The porch had the concrete covered by tile and had two sides of mexican brick and mortar . The only electricity around it was the porch light up in the house eaves. At certain times there was a 4-5 brick area that , if you touched them , would shock the daylights out of you. No reason for it. My dad built the house himself , and there was no electric wires for 20 feet or more. No other bricks around these would do anything , not even a tingle , just that little patch. We never figured it out.

Chris

[RoscoeTurner]

This is the actual quote from the book -

 

A much more interesting feature is the generation of electricity by this rifle, sufficient in amount to charge the operator, from whom a spark or a light shock may emanate upon near or actual contact.

 

Charge is suppose to be generated by the rifle firing, not from walking or any other activity. Now if BAR's actually did this we would have heard a lot more about this over the years.

[Big Al]

Actually, the BAR is different from other machine guns. In the BAR, the slide (made of steel, a conductor) in the fore-end (made of wood, an insulator) is oscillating with each shot, up to 550-600 times per minute. If the tolerances are tight enough between the fore-end and the slide, a static charge very well could develop. An easy way to test this would be to tape the leads of a multimeter to a BAR in which the slide is in contact with the slide and see if there is any charge developed from firing.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Big Al

[RoscoeTurner]

Since this information was found on the internet it must be true without question.

[Big Al]

What is so impossible about this for you to believe? A conductor (the slide) is rapidly oscillating parallel to an insulator (the wooden fore-end). A static charge can be produced under such circumstances. And as I said before, it is very easy to prove or disprove by the method I outlined in my previous post.

[RoscoeTurner]

The fact that this one instance in an obscure book written in 1920 is the only reference to this ever happening.

 

 

What is so impossible about this for you to believe? A conductor (the slide) is rapidly oscillating parallel to an insulator (the wooden fore-end). A static charge can be produced under such circumstances. And as I said before, it is very easy to prove or disprove by the method I outlined in my previous post.

[darrylta]

Now I know why my hands were tingly, a little lock jawed and my hair standing on end after a BAR mag dump.

Thanks Al,

Darryl

Edited August 13, 2013 by darrylta

[jim c 351]

This phenomena can also take place with the German K43, 8 m/m rifle.

For more info obtain and watch the movie "Suddenly", staring Frank Sinatra and Sterling Hayden.

Jim C

[Sarge]

This phenomena can also take place with the German K43, 8 m/m rifle.

For more info obtain and watch the movie "Suddenly", staring Frank Sinatra and Sterling Hayden.

Jim C

Both of my BARS are parkerized Korean war built. One of my thompsons is blued. No such occurance with any of them.

My thought is Pure BS!

 

As to the above comment on G 43 rifles -

I have owned and shot G u. K 43 rifles since 1958, currently own 15 of them.

If I ever saw the referenced movie I don't remember it. I have Never heard any such BS from any source nor have I ever experienced any such thing!

Sarge

[jim c 351]

As to the above comment on G 43 rifles -

 

I have owned and shot G u. K 43 rifles since 1958, currently own 15 of them.

 

If I ever saw the referenced movie I don't remember it. I have Never heard any such BS from any source nor have I ever experienced any such thing!

 

Sarge

Sarge,

You just gotta watch the movie.

Jim C

 

PS, It occurred to me that some readers may lack the ability to play videos. Others may not have the cash to rent or buy a video.

For those people I have provided an summery of the movie "Suddenly".

By the way ,there is some Tommy gun action in the film.

Jim C

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suddenly_(1954_film)

Edited August 13, 2013 by jim c 351

[RoscoeTurner]

Scroll down the link for photos of the G43 in "Suddenly" -

 

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Suddenly#Gewehr_43

 

Photos 7 & 8 reference the electrical charge.

[Big Al]

ALRIGHT!! That's enough. Just delete the thread. You people have been shooting machine guns since before I was born, therefore you MUST know more about whether a conductor moving next to an insulator can cause a static charge to build in the conductor. Right?

[jim c 351]

Delete the post?? Are you crazy ?? You want to loose all the nice stills that Roscoe found from the movie "Suddenly". I think this post should be put in the pinned section.

Jim C

[jim c 351]

Al,

Here's one for you.

Jim C

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPeIrBUpP1Q

[MG08]

Interesting topic, but I can say I have never experienced a "shock" of an electrical nature from BAR. I have had several 1918 BARs over the years, and I have a FN-D in the vault - I will try it and see if there is an obvious problem. Just based on the physics of the gun, I would be surprised if this was real. There are a lot of MGs with moving parts like the BAR (M240 comes to mind) and the electrostatic discharge problem has never been mentioned.