Rate of fire

[car wash chris]

Picked up my Reising 2 days ago and went to the range today. It ran very well, with the exception of a 2 light primer strikes that didn't fire. The rate of fire was very fast { at least compared to my mac 10/45 } I was wondering since I reload if I load some rounds on the weak side will that slow the ROF or can I change springs.

 

Thanks Chris

[doc280]

Replacing the factory springs with Christies springs is going to increase the fire rate. The Christies springs are much stiffer and though the gun will work with them, I do see some side effects which are as follows:

 

 

 

1) Much more difficult to charge the weapon.

 

 

 

2) Bolt slams when going back into battery.

 

 

 

3) Hammer will strike the firing pin with such force, that it will almost pierce the primer, not to mention hit on the back on the bolt.

 

 

 

I would replace the springs with factory new old stock springs, except for one. The factory firing pin return spring in my opinion is a little on the weak side. I believe this spring causes some of us to have the bent firing pin problem. It just fails to keep the firing pin back as the bolt is picking up the next round and the round get forced into the side of the firing pin. I am using the Christies firing pin return spring, the bad news is one has to buy the entire spring kit to get this spring.

 

 

 

The light strike should not be happening with a Riesing. Check and make sure someone has not been filing on the firing pin. Some people thought this was a good idea to keep the firing pin from being bent. It does not and will prevent a safety feature from working (discharging out of battery).

 

 

 

Keith

[jim c 351]

Chris,

Yes, what you have in mind is possible.

5 years ago I ran some ROF tests on several subguns and posted them on this site.

For reasons that made no sense to me the results were never put in the "Frequently ask questions".

Here's the link for your benefit.

Jim C

PS congratulations on your new subgun.

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10534&hl=+reconbob++heavy++actuator

Edited August 21, 2014 by jim c 351

[emmagee1917]

I had a couple of boxes of factory 185 gr target loads that came in a package buy . Don't use them , so they sat on a shelf for ages . One time I was going to take out my Reisings and I saw them , so I took them out for giggles and laughs . They fed fine , did slow the rate a tad , and seemed to run smoother .

 

Doc280 , how does shortn'g the firing pin prevent the prevention of an OOB ? I am aware that if the bolt doesn't lock up ( literally ) the pin will stay in line with the hammer hole and not be hit . Firing pin length sould not affect that . What am I missing ?

 

Chris

[Kilroy]

But wikipedia says the ROF of a Reising is 500 rpm. I know Wikipedia can't be wrong.

[MG08]

In my experience with Reisings ( shot maybe 15 different guns) they all ran on the high side of 700 RPM. for some reason my model 55 runs much faster, like m11/9 fast. Have not timed it. I pretty much just use 230 gr ball. The Reisings will eat SWC, and lead bullets in the 200 gr range. It WILL plug up the compensator faster.

[doc280]

Not only does the firing pin align with the hammer’s center hole, but it protrudes into it. If by chance the hammer is not caught by the sear and follows the bolt, the firing pin, aligned and in the center hammer hole will prevent the bolt from going into battery. The angle difference between the bolt and hammer also traps the firing pin and prevents it from moving.

Clear your Reising and make sure it is clear again. Take the safe off, pull the trigger, the hammer should fall. Using the action bar bring back the bolt slowly, about a ½ inch, a click should be heard. The click is the firing pin dropping into center hammer hole. Now release the action bar, notice the bolt will not go over the locking shoulder and will not go into battery.

Taking material from the back of the firing pin may prevent this feature.

Keith

[jim c 351]

DOC 280,

I don't think that people shortened the rear end of the firing pin to prevent the pin from bending and breaking, they shortened the front end. The tip. In other words made an inertia firing pin. I did this with one of my pins and I'm in the process of evaluating. In doing this a slightly stronger hammer spring is needed, but not so strong as to hamper recoil.

Jim C

[doc280]

Jim here is the link.

 

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8854&hl=%2Bbent+%2Bfiring

[jim c 351]

Doc,

Well I read the post and the poster is certainly welcome to his opinion. Both of our goals were the same, to make an inertia firing pin. I chose to shorten the tip and the above poster chose to shorten the rear end.

Both of us seem to be relatively happy.

I wonder if someone here has a new Ken Christie firing pin. If yes please comment as to whether the Christie pin is an inertia pin and did Ken shorten the tip or the rear??????????????

Jim C

[emmagee1917]

Thanks , Doc .

Of note on the link posted , I couldn't help but notice the amount of the pin protruding out the front in pic #2 vs. the small amount of trimming done to the rear of the firing pin in pic #3 .

I don't think that little bit would affect safety , but I agree it would be wise to check it out .

Jim , did you trim the front by the little amount shown in pic #3 done to the rear ? I can understand the point of the tapering pin / wedging problem , but the comparison between pics 2 & 3 would lead me to think filing on the front would not hurt at all . After all , the primer / case should prevent it from going too far forward in use . Dry firing might hurt it , though.

 

Chris

[doc280]

I is my understanding the Christie's firing pin is the machined the same as the factory, but being titanium it is lighter.

[jim c 351]

Chris,

The amount I trimmed off the tip was just enough so that when the firing pin was held flush with the rear of the bolt it would be flush at the front end of the bolt.

Dry firing is not a good idea, but no worse for my firing pin than for a standard firing pin.

The wedging issue is a new one and have no idea when that is a problem.

Just for the heck of it I reheat treated the front inch of the firing pin and used an oil quench. So far its holding up.

I admit I don't shoot the Reising that much. The M1 TSMG does most of the talking.

Jim C

[car wash chris]

Well you guys have given me alot to think about,and some education to boot. According to Jim C's test a lighter bullet will only increase the ROF. I ran it yesterday with factory ball, so I'm going to stay with the 230 gr and just gradually go down in powder and see what happens. The link to Paul F's findings was a great read and easy to understand. I beleive the former owner said he had wolf springs in the gun at this time,what's the chance of me finding NOS springs ? I will be at KRC in OCT maybe there ???

 

Thanks Chris

[jim c 351]

According to Jim C's test a lighter bullet will only increase the ROF.

 

Chris,

I think you had better read the chart again. The slowest ROF was with the 185 gr match ammo. It was 740 RPM. This is quite slow for a Reising.

Jim C

[doc280]

Numrich or Keystone Gun Parts have the NOS springs. I just bought a spare set a few months ago. I like having spare parts, because then I will never need them, ha.

Going back to my 1942 manual it states the following:

Cycle rate of fire (shot per minute)……..450-600
(Note: Deliverable rate of fire is limited by the dexterity of the operator in inserting Magazines and his ability to aim and fire.)

Maybe I am wrong, but it sounds to me they were including the magazine changes to get the cycle rate down or give a real world rate of fire. If we take out the (magazine changes) the cycle rate would be much higher.

Could this be where the confusion comes in?

Keith

[jim c 351]

Doc,

The speculation is that the listed ROF was a lie from the gitgo.

The US Navy did not like the high ROF of the 1921 Colt. That's why the 1928 US Navy came into existence .

Reising was well aware of this fact but there wasn't much he could do with his design. So when he wrote the manual he just listed the slower ROF. Since there was a war on and the Marines desperately needed a subgun things were overlooked.

And the people who write books and never fired a Reising just kept repeating the lie.

The author , Frank Iannamico was the first person I am aware of the list the correct ROF in his books.

Jim C

PS mag changes have nothing to do with ROF.

Edited August 23, 2014 by jim c 351

[car wash chris]

According to Jim C's test a lighter bullet will only increase the ROF.

 

Chris,

I think you had better read the chart again. The slowest ROF was with the 185 gr match ammo. It was 740 RPM. This is quite slow for a Reising.

Jim C

Jim Thanks for correcting me, I only looked at your OP post you showed the 225 lyman faster than the 230 ranier with the same load, { hence my conclusion } > I found your graph that Dalbert posted NICE WORK by the way and a big thanks, I just happen to have some 185/200 berrys loaded with tight group, I beleive @ 5 grains. I'll keep you posted. And Doc thanks for the heads up on where to find parts. Chris

[emmagee1917]

Jim , in pic #2 of the link , the new round will not feed because it is blocked by the firing pin being so far forward . There is no way that firing pin could get there except by being driven forward from the force of the hammer upon it with no round in the chamber to stop it. The pin , once forward , jamed there due to the pin bottoming out in it's taper . The spring could not retract it because it was wedged in place .

Chris

[jim c 351]

Jim , in pic #2 of the link , the new round will not feed because it is blocked by the firing pin being so far forward . There is no way that firing pin could get there except by being driven forward from the force of the hammer upon it with no round in the chamber to stop it. The pin , once forward , jamed there due to the pin bottoming out in it's taper . The spring could not retract it because it was wedged in place .

Chris

Chris,

The writer says that a weak firing pin spring caused the problem. I'm certainly in no position to debate, having not been present during the shooting.

But if I had to come up with a cause for the malfunction, without being given the answer, I would say a broken firing pin was the culprit.

That very thing happened to me many years ago. I was hunting with a Winchester M12, 20 ga.. The tip of the firing pin had broken off and would sometimes jam in the foreward position, thus preventing me from closing the action . I was blaming myself for shortshucking the action before I realized I needed a new firing pin.

Jim C