Advice Needed

[Ben]

I've talked about this on the board before but I really could do with the definitive answer if anybody can help...

 

Would it be illegal to ship my 9mm fully auto blank firing MGC MP40 to the USA? or more precisely, Philadelphia? The only parts that could possibly cause a problem would be the new replacement bolt assembly and firing chamber insert which are made from steel instead of the original soft alloy. If that's definitely a no-no, what if I was to ship these parts separately to the rest of the gun and to a registered/licensed gun dealer who could then "pass" them on to the buyer?

 

I'm clutching at straws here!? the prospective buyer has offered a far price for it and I'm trying to find a solution so I can ship it to him. I guess that at the end of the day, if it does get confiscated, the insurance is not worth a damn and I loose the lot, right?

 

Thanks in advance for any comments.

Ben

 

 

[Delta3-2]

Well, I notice you don't identify yourself in your profile at all. Have NO clue where you are from ? I doubt serioiusly if you'll get anyone to help you. Perhaps you should inquire with your Customs people wherever that is. You would do well to at least identify your location. You look shakey to me.

 

Dan G.

[Ben]

QUOTE (Delta3-2 @ Dec 12 2003, 02:29 PM)

Well, I notice you don't identify yourself in your profile at all.  You look shakey to me. Dan G.

Well I notice you're very quick to throw insults around Dan my man! The only shakey thing around here is your ability to read.

 

Like I said, I've talked about this MP40 before on the board so forgive me if I didn't feel it was necessary to ask your permission before posting.

[mp40]

Hi Ben, To answer your question, NO it would not be legal to import as it would be considered a live machinegun! and could not be transfered, given or sold in the usa to a private citizen due to a 1986 law sad to say, but true....You could try but it would be bad for the buyer!! and could possibly cause you to be arrested if you where to visit the U.S.! We have some bad laws here! just be thankful that they still allow blankfirers in the UK!

[Ben]

Thanks Mark, knew I could rely on you for the answer. Seems crazy to me that you guys can own a real shootable machine gun in certain states but are still not allowed to have a replica blank firer! Ah well, I'll have to give the buyer the bad news now, he's not going to be a happy bunny http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/sad.gif

 

Should be ok to send a normal un-modified MGC though, right? with orange plug in the end of course.

[Delta3-2]

QUOTE (Ben @ Dec 12 2003, 03:23 PM)

QUOTE (Delta3-2 @ Dec 12 2003, 02:29 PM) Well, I notice you don't identify yourself in your profile at all.  You look shakey to me. Dan G. Well I notice you're very quick to throw insults around Dan my man! The only shakey thing around here is your ability to read.   Like I said, I've talked about this MP40 before on the board so forgive me if I didn't feel it was necessary to ask your permission before posting. Hi Ben....gee did I insult you because I said you haven't provided any information as to where you live ? I re-read your profile and there really is NOTHING there. Am I to understand that one should go searching your 26 postings to see if you left a tidbit of information regarding your country of origin ? I think not. Like I said you should be consulting your Customs people. You should also visit the United States Customs website where you could find information to provide your answers. Lastly....what is it with men today ? They're always so hurt by words ! Insult indeed. I'm not insulted by you in any sense of what you wrote in response to my post. I won't lose sleep over it, and I certainly won't cry here that you hurt my feelings. What I will say again is that YOU whoever you are, wherever you are from, should check with Customs instead of asking the common folk here.   Ben...your information is shakey !   Dan G. Girard, PA United States of America

[Delta3-2]

QUOTE (Ben @ Dec 12 2003, 11:46 AM)

I've talked about this on the board before but I really could do with the definitive answer if anybody can help... Would it be illegal to ship my 9mm fully auto blank firing MGC MP40 to the USA? or more precisely, Philadelphia? The only parts that could possibly cause a problem would be the new replacement bolt assembly and firing chamber insert which are made from steel instead of the original soft alloy. If that's definitely a no-no, what if I was to ship these parts separately to the rest of the gun and to a registered/licensed gun dealer who could then "pass" them on to the buyer? I'm clutching at straws here!? the prospective buyer has offered a far price for it and I'm trying to find a solution so I can ship it to him. I guess that at the end of the day, if it does get confiscated, the insurance is not worth a damn and I loose the lot, right? Thanks in advance for any comments. Ben

Ben, allow me to provide the definitive answer to your quoted question.

 

From the United States Government's "Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, Title 18, United States Code, Chapter 44, Firearms, Section 921. Definitions (3) The term "firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/cool.gif the frame or receiver of any such weapon; © any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm."

 

Using the BATF's own example in (A) above, the starter gun, is a blank-firing device. That pretty sums up the intent of the law.

 

As a "firearm" you now have to have an import/export license as well as meeting those many restrictions and costs. Of course the recipient of the weapon must now be a licensed importer with all the associated costs.

 

Lastly, Philadelphia is an ENTIRE different ball of wax. They layer MORE firearms restrictions on people in addition to the Feds.

 

This information is taken from BATF's Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide, dated 2000, publication number: ATF P 5300.4 (01-00)

 

This information is readily available from the BATF's website.

 

Dan G.

Girard, PA

USA

[Delta3-2]

QUOTE (mp40 @ Dec 12 2003, 09:32 PM)

Hi Ben, To answer your question, NO it would not be legal to import as it would be considered a live machinegun! and could not be transfered, given or sold in the usa to a private citizen due to a 1986 law sad to say, but true....You could try but it would be bad for the buyer!! and could possibly cause you to be arrested if you where to visit the U.S.! We have some bad laws here! just be thankful that they still allow blankfirers in the UK!

 

 

MP40, I couldn't let this one go by. You write: "just be thankful that they still allow blankfirers in the UK ! " Is that to mean that UK subjects are fortunate to still have blank firers even though no one can own a REAL firearm ? Or is your comment to mean that as United States citizens we would be so lucky to have access to blank firing weapons in lieu of actual firearms ownership ?

 

If you think we have it bad I would argue it could be better but, we haven't been denied our rights to firearms ownership as the subjects of the UK, Australia, and Canada have been. Also, we can still have blank-firing weapons here. The problem is that the FEDS treat a blank-firing only weapon as a firearm. Thus it not worth it to ANY manufacturer to produce a blank-firer. These weapons have to endure the same internal receiver pressures from the little explosive device called a "blank" as a real weapon does with live cartridges. Thus the inherent costs associated with design and manufacture AND meeting ATF regulations leave little chance for making a profit. There's not enough people willing to buy an expensive blank-firer.

 

As this is the MP40 board many of you naturally discuss the subject weapon. Unless you're a reenactor wanting an inexpensive solution to a real MP40 I don't see any good reason to own a blank-firer. As a German reenactor you'd do very well to find a nice Mauser 98k as your personal weapon. These rifles were the standard issue weapon of the German soldier, they're reasonably inexpensive, and being bolt action they do VERY well with blanks with no modification.

 

If you still want an MP40 you should really consider buying a true MP40. I've seen tube MP40s for as little as $6k in the last week. Is that alot of loot ? Absolutely, but you have a weapon that is REAL and will increase in value every year. Hey, it's also a "blank-firer" !

 

Dan G.

Girard, PA

USA

[junglewalk]

Relax everyone; I just hate the feeling of shooting my MP-40 with blanks; It feels like I'm hitting the internals with a hammer, Ha!..........I use a 98k in re-enactments, to take the challenge of a bolt going up against the likes of a Garand or PPSH, is taxing...........

The last MG Shoot at KCR, there were half a dozen fellows from England who were so excited to come to the shoot. They said they saved their money all year to come over, and shoot some mgs.......All of them though, had small collections of Enfields at home. (see, I thought no guns could be owned over in GB). They said, the rigamarol they have to go through is a pain, to own their 303s, but worth it..........So at least you Brits have some firearms ownership, & maybe you can roll back the tide someday.

By the way, Thanks Great Britian for fighting with us in Iraq.......a great ally.................................jw

[Ben]

Dan, you're a bit of a strange fish aren't you...you say I'm shakey because I haven't put any information in my profile but neither have you?! You tell me that nobody is going to be able to help me on this board then you post all the BATF regulations for me to read?! thank you..or more to the point, my friend in Philadelphia thanks you because I'm asking all these questions on his behalf. That's what message boards are all about isn't it? asking questions?

 

Anyway, just for your satisfaction..I'm 32 and from Wales but live in London now and work as a CAD engineer. I like to restore classic cars and go windsurfing and I've been interested in WW2 militaria ever since I was a boy and lived next to the RAF base where they maintain the last few still flying Spitfires, Hurricanes and Lancaster bomber.

 

Your turn.. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

[mp40]

Hi Dan, the comment ment that since the government of the UK has practically banned all private firearms, (except for the few types that they are allowed) they are very lucky to be allowed anything that fires anything at all!

 

Seeing is that their government is no-longer accountable to the general public..They get all forms of "gun control"shoved down their throats and of course the resulting crime increase.

 

So, they are at this point, very lucky...Also, there is a movement to ban all toy guns, blank firers, and deactivated firearms! what's next? Choping off fingers to prevent kids from pointing them like a gun?

 

Also, what should be the case here is that all states and citizens (with no criminal/mental record of course) should be allowed to possess a machinegun...That would affectively eliminate the need for blank firing replicas...

 

I am peticulalry well aware of the reason that i cannot have a real mp40....State law.....So, unless i move, that option is closed to me...As for the disscussions here on this board about the replicas, my aim is to disscuss the real mp40's and mp44's but since i cannot possess the real item replicas it is....Besides, there are few people willing to disscuss the real mp's why?

[Delta3-2]

QUOTE (Ben @ Dec 13 2003, 11:08 AM)

Dan, you're a bit of a strange fish aren't you...you say I'm shakey because I haven't put any information in my profile but neither have you?! You tell me that nobody is going to be able to help me on this board then you post all the BATF regulations for me to read?! thank you..or more to the point, my friend in Philadelphia thanks you because I'm asking all these questions on his behalf. That's what message boards are all about isn't it? asking questions? Anyway, just for your satisfaction..I'm 32 and from Wales but live in London now and work as a CAD engineer. I like to restore classic cars and go windsurfing and I've been interested in WW2 militaria ever since I was a boy and lived next to the RAF base where they maintain the last few still flying Spitfires, Hurricanes and Lancaster bomber. Your turn.. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

Ben, am I strange....hmmmm I would agree with you in many respects. Yep, I guess I am. As far as not having MY info up I'll give you that one. However, I wasn't the one requesting information that would most certainly put two parties at legal risk. Anyways...I've added abit to my profile so now we're even Ben.

 

I'm 50 (yuck, the body starts with immediate aches & pains when you roll over the big 5-0) now. Served 25 years with the United States Army retiring in '97 as a Senior Non-Commissioned Officer. I enjoy firearms but lately have taken abit more interest in WW2 small arms then before. I could not and would not ever describe myself as a collector as I'm not willing to come up with the loot it takes to fill a collection. But, I have a couple interesting firearms I only recently purchased. How I wish I'd started looking for 98k Mausers and Lugers even just 5 years ago !

 

At the moment I'm in the process of acquiring a GI bringback MP40 amnesty registered in 1968. It's a BNZ 43, BNZ being the manufacturers code for Steyer-Daimler Puch of Graz, Austria. They were the primary contractor for the MP40, the designer/developer being Erma of Dachau, Germany. Now an Erma MP40 that would be nice !

 

Yep, I gave you the info for the lazy buyer in Philadelphia. I just decided to provide the definitive answer. It's unfortunate the guy in Philly wouldn't do the research himself. It would be easier for him. However, as the seller I know what you were trying to do...close the deal. Hell, I had a guy from Indonesia tell me he wanted to buy my E-bay Harley but, "could you research the air freight on your motorcyle from home to Jakarkta for me ?" Yeah, right....I'll get right on that ! The clown thought I'd go thru hoops for him and he hadn't even put a bid on the bike ! ! ! Sales is not my forte.

 

You know Ben...I don't see why you aren't selling this MP40 creature of your in joll 'ol England ? You have a large grouping of WW2 German reenactors there. I would not get wound up with the export to the USA thing. Unfortunately you have to have patience when selling. I realize a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush but, this bird could rip your arm off legally. My suggestion is to consider going to some of the re-enactment events and see where the vendors are. Then perhaps set up a booth or just mingle with the troops. I would t hink there is a buyer out there in the UK....remember there is an ass for every seat.

 

Well, time for me to go....I need to save my energy for other postings.

 

Take care shakey one.

 

Dan G.

Girard, PA USA

[Ben]

That's right Mark, they are trying to ban all replica/blank firing guns as well over here at the moment. Some bright spark in Goverment thinks that replicas are a menace to public safety because some can be converted to live firing. What they haven't considered is that there's no good reason for any criminal to go to the considerable time, effort and money to get a replica converted when he can just buy a Glock,UZI, AK47 etc off the street for a couple of hundred pounds. These weapons are being smuggled in from former Soviet Union countries on a daily basis and our Customs people have only got the resources to intercept a fraction of the shipments. Besides, the idea that a drug dealer/gangster would go around defending his turf with a converted MP40 or Thompson for instance is just laughable..they'd die of embarrassment, not bullets.

 

Back to the topic of MP40's. I think that the focus on replicas on the board is due to the fact that real ones are fast becoming out of reach in terms of price for the average collector, myself included. A deactivated MP40 has doubled in price over the last year, prices are now around £2000 and still going up. I can't justify spending that kind of money, however much I'd like to own one.

[Delta3-2]

QUOTE (mp40 @ Dec 13 2003, 02:01 PM)

Hi Dan, the comment ment that since the government of the UK has practically banned all private firearms, (except for the few types that they are allowed) they are very lucky to be allowed anything that fires anything at all! Seeing is that their government is no-longer accountable to the general public..They get all forms of "gun control"shoved down their throats and of course the resulting crime increase. So, they are at this point, very lucky...Also, there is a movement to ban all toy guns, blank firers, and deactivated firearms! what's next? Choping off fingers to prevent kids from pointing them like a gun? Also, what should be the case here is that all states and citizens (with no criminal/mental record of course) should be allowed to possess a machinegun...That would affectively eliminate the need for blank firing replicas... I am peticulalry well aware of the reason that i cannot have a real mp40....State law.....So, unless i move, that option is closed to me...As for the disscussions here on this board about the replicas, my aim is to disscuss the real mp40's and mp44's but since i cannot possess the real item replicas it is....Besides, there are few people willing to disscuss the real mp's why?

Hello MP40...thanks for your great answer to my questions.

 

I used to live in NY State and good fortune brought me to Pennsylvania. Do we have our firearms problems ? Yes. But, we have much more opportunity than you guys in Washington. Witness my ability to purchase an MP40.

 

Recently I've met with with the Democratic contender for the Republican held Congressional seat in the 30th PA congressional district. I loved the guy except for one thing...he wants to register all firearms and is a proponent for ballistic fingerprinting, etc. He hasn't a clue about firearms. Only knows what he's read or heard. I WAS going to support him and help him in his campaign until I discoverd the above. Moral of the story ? You guys have to start banding together and removing and preventing anti-gun candidates/incumbents from gaining/keeping office.

 

What is happening in this country is a slow erosion of our gun rights. I'm amazed at the people who have NO clue who their various political leaders are. They then feel good they went to the voting booth but, they only pulled levers. They hand NO idea what they were doing. That wasn't voting that was just lever pulling.

 

You have to start voting your brain....join some state-wide gun organizations, Gun Owners of America, etc. That's all I can say. You will find it frustrating as even your gun-toting buddies don't want to get involved. They will ignore your pleas for action. Someday they're precious hunting firearms will be a thing of the past if they don't start doing something now.

 

Well, I know you said pulling up roots is easier said than done. But, you should really consider it if you want to be a free man, not a subject of Washington State. Do it now rather than later...you'll only be a day closer to 50 !

 

Take care,

 

Dan G.

Girard, PA USA

[Delta3-2]

QUOTE (Ben @ Dec 14 2003, 06:57 AM)

That's right Mark, they are trying to ban all replica/blank firing guns as well over here at the moment. Some bright spark in Goverment thinks that replicas are a menace to public safety because some can be converted to live firing. What they haven't considered is that there's no good reason for any criminal to go to the considerable time, effort and money to get a replica converted when he can just buy a Glock,UZI, AK47 etc off the street for a couple of hundred pounds. These weapons are being smuggled in from former Soviet Union countries on a daily basis and our Customs people have only got the resources to intercept a fraction of the shipments. Besides, the idea that a drug dealer/gangster would go around defending his turf with a converted MP40 or Thompson for instance is just laughable..they'd die of embarrassment, not bullets. Back to the topic of MP40's. I think that the focus on replicas on the board is due to the fact that real ones are fast becoming out of reach in terms of price for the average collector, myself included. A deactivated MP40 has doubled in price over the last year, prices are now around £2000 and still going up. I can't justify spending that kind of money, however much I'd like to own one.

Ben....if you could afford the replica at 2000 pounds imagine the value it would be in 5 years ? Just a thought.

 

Dan G.

Girard, PA USA

[Delta3-2]

QUOTE (mp40 @ Dec 13 2003, 02:01 PM)

Hi Dan, the comment ment that since the government of the UK has practically banned all private firearms, (except for the few types that they are allowed) they are very lucky to be allowed anything that fires anything at all! Seeing is that their government is no-longer accountable to the general public..They get all forms of "gun control"shoved down their throats and of course the resulting crime increase. So, they are at this point, very lucky...Also, there is a movement to ban all toy guns, blank firers, and deactivated firearms! what's next? Choping off fingers to prevent kids from pointing them like a gun? Also, what should be the case here is that all states and citizens (with no criminal/mental record of course) should be allowed to possess a machinegun...That would affectively eliminate the need for blank firing replicas... I am peticulalry well aware of the reason that i cannot have a real mp40....State law.....So, unless i move, that option is closed to me...As for the disscussions here on this board about the replicas, my aim is to disscuss the real mp40's and mp44's but since i cannot possess the real item replicas it is....Besides, there are few people willing to disscuss the real mp's why?

MP40 you wrote: "Besides, there are few people willing to disscuss the real mp's why? That's a good question. I know I've posted a couple topics. One was about the folding stock slop. Last time I looked more than 45 guys had looked at it. Only one gentleman decided it was worth his time to reply. I can't figure it out.

 

Certainly this is a specialty topic but, I would think that if the Thompson MG may be the #1 Class III owned weapon in the USA, then certainly the MP40 is right behind it at number 2.

 

Maybe I'll post a new topic and see how many guys respond.

 

Dan G.

Girard, PA USA

[Delta3-2]

QUOTE (Ben @ Dec 14 2003, 06:57 AM)

That's right Mark, they are trying to ban all replica/blank firing guns as well over here at the moment. Some bright spark in Goverment thinks that replicas are a menace to public safety because some can be converted to live firing. What they haven't considered is that there's no good reason for any criminal to go to the considerable time, effort and money to get a replica converted when he can just buy a Glock,UZI, AK47 etc off the street for a couple of hundred pounds. These weapons are being smuggled in from former Soviet Union countries on a daily basis and our Customs people have only got the resources to intercept a fraction of the shipments. Besides, the idea that a drug dealer/gangster would go around defending his turf with a converted MP40 or Thompson for instance is just laughable..they'd die of embarrassment, not bullets. Back to the topic of MP40's. I think that the focus on replicas on the board is due to the fact that real ones are fast becoming out of reach in terms of price for the average collector, myself included. A deactivated MP40 has doubled in price over the last year, prices are now around £2000 and still going up. I can't justify spending that kind of money, however much I'd like to own one.

Ben...the problem I see in jolly 'ol England is that the subjects of the crown have been apathetic to their own well-being. They've most undoubtedly re-elected the same scoundrels just as we have here in the USA.

 

I cannot for the life of me imagine WHY any voter would re-elect a sitting politician.

 

Here in the USA we continue to allow these scoundrels a political career by re-electing them. Evidently the people in both the UK and the USA are happy with these bandits.

 

We get what we vote for or don't vote for. Our destiny and that of our children is in our hands !

 

Dan G.

Girard, PA USA

[Ben]

"Ben, am I strange....hmmmm I would agree with you in many respects. Yep, I guess I am. As far as not having MY info up I'll give you that one. However, I wasn't the one requesting information that would most certainly put two parties at legal risk"

 

Dan, I think we must all be a little bit strange otherwise we'd out playing golf or something like sensible little people do http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif

 

It wasn't my intention put anyone at legal risk which is why I thought it prudent to come and ask the experts first. Believe me, it was quite an effort to get him to keep hold of his money until I got the answer.

 

"Ben....if you could afford the replica at 2000 pounds imagine the value it would be in 5 years ? Just a thought"

 

These aren't replicas, they're the real deal, deactivated so they can no longer shoot. But yes, they're a great investment which is why I'm selling off my replicas so I can afford one. Looking at getting another MP44 at the moment as well, watch this space..

 

"Here in the USA we continue to allow these scoundrels a political career by re-electing them. Evidently the people in both the UK and the USA are happy with these bandits."

 

Well the alternative choices of political parties are even worse than the current leadership so what can you do.

 

Did you see that they've just captured Saddam?! He had two AK47 on him, blank shooters as well, naughty boy!

[Delta3-2]

QUOTE (Ben @ Dec 14 2003, 07:54 AM)

"Ben, am I strange....hmmmm I would agree with you in many respects. Yep, I guess I am. As far as not having MY info up I'll give you that one. However, I wasn't the one requesting information that would most certainly put two parties at legal risk" Dan, I think we must all be a little bit strange otherwise we'd out playing golf or something like sensible little people do;) It wasn't my intention put anyone at legal risk which is why I thought it prudent to come and ask the experts first. Believe me, it was quite an effort to get him to keep hold of his money until I got the answer. "Ben....if you could afford the replica at 2000 pounds imagine the value it would be in 5 years ? Just a thought" These aren't replicas, they're the real deal, deactivated so they can no longer shoot. But yes, they're a great investment which is why I'm selling off my replicas so I can afford one. Looking at getting another MP44 at the moment as well, watch this space.. "Here in the USA we continue to allow these scoundrels a political career by re-electing them. Evidently the people in both the UK and the USA are happy with these bandits." Well the alternative choices of political parties are even worse than the current leadership so what can you do. Did you see that they've just captured Saddam?! He had two AK47 on him, blank shooters as well, naughty boy!

Hi Ben,

 

Oh, I didn't give you the peaceful remedy to these career politicians....NEVER re-elect them ! NEVER, NEVER, NEVER !

 

Anyone who is an adult can hold political office and do no worse then these scoundrels. You yourself Ben, you're no dummy. And doesn't the Crown provide Gov't money to run for office ? Unlike this country where you have to sell your soul !

 

So, what can one do ? Peacefully, do not re-elect them. The only Brit politician I've any respect for since Churchhill is Margaret Thatcher. But, even then I wouldn't have voted AGAIN for her or Winston.

 

Yes...God Bless the Internet....Saddam's capture came across FoxNews.com some time ago. However, I'm concerned now with all the crap that will occur politically. Personally, I think the troops should have shot him...at the very least kneecap his ass ! Now that this guy is in our custody he'll be given good food, the best healthcare and every comfort under the sun. He'll never want for anything and the international community will rail AGAINST executing him !

 

I'm glad we got him...but, I've never felt Iraq endangered US Security. I feel it's the 1.5 million Mexican illegals invading the USA every year ! That's our problem but, the scoundrels don't want to address it with any seriousness.

 

BTW....I posted a couple new topics trying to get some action here. At least you and I are adding to the traffic.

 

Take care,

 

Dan G.

Girard, PA USA

[Ben]

QUOTE (Delta3-2 @ Dec 14 2003, 08:53 AM)

I'm glad we got him...but, I've never felt Iraq endangered US Security. I feel it's the 1.5 million Mexican illegals invading the USA every year ! That's our problem but, the scoundrels don't want to address it with any seriousness.

I couldn't agree with you more Dan, Saddam and his regime were never a serious threat to either the US or Britain, only his own people but its no surprise we are still meeting resistance in Iraq and always will until we withdraw. Britain promised self rule to the Arabic nations during WW1 and then promptly went back on their word after the war ended and slaughtered and gassed all the Arabs who apposed them. The Arabic world doesn't trust the western world or Britain more to the point and they look to any and all who stand against us as heroes which is why I'm actually quite relived that they took Saddam alive...alive and grovelling in a hole. If he'd gone out in a blaze of gunfire then it would have created a martyr out of him. At least now, all Iraqis and others will have seen what a cowardly, self obsessed little worm of a man he is and will hopefully realise he's not and never was, worth fighting for.

[Delta3-2]

QUOTE (Ben @ Dec 14 2003, 04:57 PM)

QUOTE (Delta3-2 @ Dec 14 2003, 08:53 AM) I'm glad we got him...but, I've never felt Iraq endangered US Security.  I feel it's the 1.5 million Mexican illegals invading the USA every year !  That's our problem but, the scoundrels don't want to address it with any seriousness. I couldn't agree with you more Dan, Saddam and his regime were never a serious threat to either the US or Britain, only his own people but its no surprise we are still meeting resistance in Iraq and always will until we withdraw. Britain promised self rule to the Arabic nations during WW1 and then promptly went back on their word after the war ended and slaughtered and gassed all the Arabs who apposed them. The Arabic world doesn't trust the western world or Britain more to the point and they look to any and all who stand against us as heroes which is why I'm actually quite relived that they took Saddam alive...alive and grovelling in a hole. If he'd gone out in a blaze of gunfire then it would have created a martyr out of him. At least now, all Iraqis and others will have seen what a cowardly, self obsessed little worm of a man he is and will hopefully realise he's not and never was, worth fighting for. Well Ben you won't get an argument out of me. I agree with EVERY word you wrote. Our nations will be policing up the mess in Iraq for decades. Hell we're both still in Germany 60+ years later. Why ?   Although I tend to agree zapping the low-life may have endeared him as a martyr to the Arabs, I can't help think what future events would have been simplified if some Corporal had just put 73 grains right between his eyes !   Dan G. Girard, PA USA

[Ben]

QUOTE (Delta3-2 @ Dec 14 2003, 06:27 PM)

Although I tend to agree zapping the low-life may have endeared him as a martyr to the Arabs, I can't help think what future events would have been simplified if some Corporal had just put 73 grains right between his eyes !

Amen to that! It will be a disaster if Saddam decides to do a "Milosovic" and makes a mockery out of the future trial setup to convict him by just denying its authority...more likely though, he'll secretly get offered a semi-pardon for "admitting" that there "WERE" weapons of mass destruction!

 

Or am I just too cynical for my tender young age?? http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Delta3-2]

QUOTE (Ben @ Dec 14 2003, 06:54 PM)

QUOTE (Delta3-2 @ Dec 14 2003, 06:27 PM) Although I tend to agree zapping the low-life may have endeared him as a martyr to the Arabs, I can't help think what future events would have been simplified if some Corporal had just put 73 grains right between his eyes ! Amen to that! It will be a disaster if Saddam decides to do a "Milosovic" and makes a mockery out of the future trial setup to convict him by just denying its authority...more likely though, he'll secretly get offered a semi-pardon for "admitting" that there "WERE" weapons of mass destruction!   Or am I just too cynical for my tender young age?? http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif Bennie...let me tell you about cynicism....NO ONE is more cynical than I. I try to be positive but, I look around at the f.....g I get everyday from the people around me and I can't help it.   Cynicism isn't a fault....optimism is ! !! How do I explain that ? Simple. Cynicism is one's ability to look around him and find reality. To realize that there is alot to be corrected in the world around you and elsewhere. Optimism, to me, is gleefully going thru life like nothing is wrong and ignoring the many things that need to be addressed. It's kind of like voters. The ignore the candidates and their records and gleefully vote without "concern". They're optimists !   Be cynical, you'll learn to ask questions that way, and in turn keep yourself from getting any more srewings then you deserve !   Ben....we better come up with a new thread or talk MP40 here or we're going to get banished.     Dan G. Girard, PA USA