tricky9914 Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 Hello all!I am looking at a transferrable MP40. It is stated to be of German manufacture (not a tube), it is unknown weather or not it is C&R. The code on the rear of the lower grip assembly/receiver section indicates Erma with COS subcontractor Merz. The tube looks similar in age and finish condition. No indication of a reweld on the tube. The from lists a US name as manufacturer (not a company as far as I know) and the serial is "EX followed by 2 digits" which is stamped on top of the receiver between the forward sling band and ejection port. My C&R Steyr has a 4-digis serial with letter prefix on the left-hand side forward of the magwell - this one does not (I don't know if Erma SN'ed them differently). My assumption is this is a rebuild or tube, but I am not sure. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Iannamico Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 The odd serial number and US manufacturer make it suspect. MP40 components will have a s/n that matches the receiver, what numbers are on the trigger frame, barrel, bolt etc.? One way to tell a "new" manufacture tube gun - U.S. made receiver is to look inside the receiver tube, New manufacture tubes (not C&R) will be smooth inside, original German - made tubes will have "ridges" inside like on the outside. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyDixon Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 so whar does the nfa reg. paper say ?just wondering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricky9914 Posted August 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 It has name GE McKeivie under manufacturer and E-X-digit-digit under serial number. N/A under model. The same SN is stamped on the receiver and based on photos I cannot see German markings or serial in the usual place, so I'm thinking tube gun, but I don't know for sure. The seller is adamant that it is an original German receiver. The SN is also stamped on the barrel but all the other parts have the typical serial numbers, none of which match the receiver. I am wondering if it was an FBI or IRS number but I have no idea. This one is strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villafuego Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 I've seen quite a few non-C&R guns that were "rewelds", or "remanufactured", but in reality were nothing more than unregistered guns someone F1'd and added some engraving to get them on the registry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman1957 Posted August 18, 2021 Report Share Posted August 18, 2021 If it is possible, post photos, that would be very helpful in others being able to chime in. With the name on the receiver it is most likely a Form 1 or Form 2 gun. It is possible it could have been amnesty registered in 1968. I have not seen any names marked on Amnesty guns of that time. Besides the name, does it list a city and state. That could assist in possibly finding the person who registered it. Agree with Villafuego that is could be an original gun that was registered. This also means that while original, it may not be matching. Depending on when it was registered will determine if it is an C&R. Do you who has the gun for sale. Is it an individual or dealer. I would try see the gun in person, or have a forum member look at it. If it is in another state many times there is someone who could look at it for you. You could also try calling the NFA Branch, and asking if the gun is C&R eligible. They may not answer. They should. That is not Tax info. Good luck. Sandman1957 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricky9914 Posted August 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2021 Hello,The name is not stamped on the receiver, just the strange serial number and no other German markings. The name is under "Manufacturer" on the form. I can't find the name in any search so was most likely just a random person who registered it. It is for sale with a dealer. I have photos but I can't figure out how to post them. I can email them to you if you like? Thank you all for all of your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRMCII Posted August 18, 2021 Report Share Posted August 18, 2021 Keep in mind that those MGs in the US that remained unregistered after the '68 Amnesty remain contraband if the receivers were not legally "destroyed" to render them uncontrolled as firearms for remanufacture under the rules at the time, and their intact receivers were falsely registered as "remanufactured" or as C+R on F1s and F2s.There has been a longtime subset of collectors who will seek out and buy these compromised MGs since the prices are usually considerably less than properly registered remans or C+RSA's.Such compromised registrations were done by both licensees and individuals and fortunately are not common but they are out there.Since the MFG. is listed as McKievie and the registered serial number is clearly a made-up number, and the receiver tube is no welded or replaced, it appears to me to be a false registration. Confirm that it is an original receiver tube per Frank's advice above, and if so, I'd look carefully to see if there is actually some welding on the receiver tube. Often shops would find the least intrusive place and easiest way to "cut" and "destroy" the receiver, do the least possible and easiest required welding for legal registration and pass it on.With the info noted above on the gun's registration, the gun is NOT properly C+R eligible. FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMGguy Posted August 18, 2021 Report Share Posted August 18, 2021 Photos would be very helpful. Not only should an original German tube be as originally serial numbered, there should also be other WaA inspection marks here and there, several on the tube and mag housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricky9914 Posted August 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2021 Thanks for the info, everyone. It does cause great pause for concern that this may have been illegally registered. If this were on the registry and transferred from person to person, does that mean that the ATF could revoke its transfer status? I have never heard of a scenario like this before. Thanks for all the insights on this. I will try and get photos up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMGguy Posted August 21, 2021 Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 Thanks for the info, everyone. It does cause great pause for concern that this may have been illegally registered. If this were on the registry and transferred from person to person, does that mean that the ATF could revoke its transfer status? I have never heard of a scenario like this before. Thanks for all the insights on this. I will try and get photos up. It's been my experience that guns in the registry stay there. The ATF has been known to request clarifications and make revisions to information on forms. An FOIA will disclose the route to registration that the gun took and actions since. My M1928A1 is an example. I bought the gun from a seller who remembered purchasing it from a sporting goods store in Chicago in 1954. The FOIA showed that the gun wasn't even imported until 1966, the year he actually acquired it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1gewehr Posted August 29, 2021 Report Share Posted August 29, 2021 The manufacturer may have stamped their name and location on the bottom of the tube where it would be hidden by the lower receiver. I've seen a couple like that over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavy artillery Posted August 29, 2021 Report Share Posted August 29, 2021 The manufacturer may have stamped their name and location on the bottom of the tube where it would be hidden by the lower receiver. I've seen a couple like that over the years. Good call. I've got a Phoenix Armory one done this way (with the tube serial number matching the parts kit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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