sevengunner

QUOTE In the old days, before the Uzis had ratchets in the top cover cocking knob mechanisms (which serve the same purpose), a loaded S.S. Uzi dropped out of an airliner's overhead storeage bin while loading, and hit the floor butt first. The impact threw the bolt back far enough to pick up a round and it fired. Nobody was hurt, but changes were dictated. The newer Uzi top covers prevent the bolt from moving forward until it has been retracted all the way back to the sear catch, deactivating the safety ratchet. Great invention. In addition to the safety ratchet, I recall owning some mid-year, open bolt Uzi SMGs that actually had bolt traps built into the manual safety. To retrofit the trap to the older guns, you had to cut away some of the mag well at the top of the grip frame. Sven

QUOTE The people who are really missing the boat are those who carry a 2" barrel .38 +P revolver and expect to do any damage, just because it makes a lot of noise. They should do some penetration tests. Also, the extremely restricted sight radius on the snubby revolvers makes precision shooting beyond 15 yards an exercise in frustration. Sven

Early WWII cleaning rods for the TSMG were made entirely of brass. Later, it was a steel rod with brass nose. Then the whole assembly was made of steel. The pre-WWII TSMG cleaning rods that were mounted in the FBI cases were all brass, were longer than the WWII rods, and had a smaller diameter loop at the end. I'm not near my collection right now and therefore can't take length measurements to corroborate yours. Sven

QUOTE After shooting mine at trees in my back 40.. I just don't buy the BS that they didn't penetrate the "heavy quilted coats". I would have to agree with your assertion -- if the lack of penetration on winter coats [at close range] was the Soviet's primary complaint on the TSMG. Of course, if they were expecting the .45 ACP to penetrate heavy clothing at 200+ yards, then they just weren't being realistic. From my personal experience: while .45 ACP slugs coming out of a 1911 do have trouble penetrating all the layers of a car door at 15 yards, the same slugs blasting out of a TSMG will render all the layers of the car door (except the framing metal) into swiss cheese from even greater distances. Sven

QUOTE will I have to worry about that section of the bolt being more prone to rust? If you cut a nickel bolt, I doubt that the exposed area would be any more prone to rust than the other "bright" surfaces. If you cut a blued bolt: in my past experience, Brownell's Oxpho Blue (which is a touch-up compound applied cold) seems to provide the best color match and blending for hot blued finishes, and most importantly, seems to form a surface that is highly resistant to after-rust. In contrast, the common staple such as the Birchwood-Casey cold blue is aggressive (penetrates deep with a dark blue-black color) but is notorious for rusting out (at worst) and browning (at best) within a day after the application. Sven

QUOTE Soviets had/have nothing but bad things to say of the Thompsons. Besides their partisan dislike of any product that is a result of capitalism, I wonder what the commies failed to appreciate about the TSMG? I understand that in their conflicts the Finnish, the Soviets were dominated and overcome by the Finnish riflemen and their expert skills at long range marksmanship. I suppose a subgun [of any kind] provides little relief when someone is picking off your troops at 300 yards. Sven

QUOTE (Walter63a @ May 7 2006, 01:27 PM)QUOTE (sevengunner @ May 7 2006, 08:04 AM) Hi Sven, Perhaps I overeacted. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/banghead.gif It seemed to me when first read your post, immediately following mine, that you were attacking my post. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif I now understand; I will delete that post and this one in the near future. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif Peace, Walter Hello Walter, Thanks for the handshake -- we're cool! Thanks also to Bill in VA for helping the peace! Sven

All - A couple weekends ago, I was driving back from NYC and stopped by the NRA Nat'l Firearms Museum in Fairfax, VA for a look-see. For the longest time, the only Colt TSMG in the permanent display was a 1928 donated by the Thompson Collector's Association. There is a now minty Colt 1921 on permanent display in the long case near the emergency exit, donated by one "R. Whitehead." It is about as perfect as a 1921 can be. Not a blemish on it. Like it just rolled off the assembly line in Hartford, Conn. yesterday. Oh ... that blue! You know the kind I'm talking about. Hadn't seen this one before in any magazine, book or contest ... but it couldn't be more flawless. Where there's another one at 100% ... there's got to be more ... those minty 1921s are out there in private hands! Sven

I understand the wealthy with money growing on trees in their back yard leveraging what they got the most of to buy what they want the most. Sometimes its an ego thing. Rich Bidder #1 simply isn't going to be outdone by Rich Bidder #2. Alpha Wallets think and live that way. Generally, these people stick to masterworks in art for their bidding wars, but items like Thompsons are beginning to develop a cachet similar to that of early American [antique] furniture by the master cabinetmakers (e.g. John Goddard, etc.) - lots of provenance, highly documentd and rare variants, quantifiably and comparatively high craftsmanship, uniquely American context, and lots of "ooh and aah" in the popular conscience. When your read about folks like Charles Barkley throwing away $10 million in a single evening at the poker tables in Las Vegas, you begin understanding the extent of disposable wealth some ... or many ... people have. Consider the pricing on double-barrel, dangerous-game rifles in .500, .505, .577, .600 and .700 Nitro Express. The pricing on these - as newly manufactured guns - all begin at five figures. Add a famous maker like H&H, Purdey & Sons, etc. to a vintage piece and the price has just gone to six figures. Every community has more than a handful of bankers, etc. who are not big names in the public awareness but who have enough to live in homes with 30,000 sq. feet, put a Ferrari in one of their six garage bays, and who will drop $80,000 to buy a custom made double rifle on a whim for the safari he will never go on but could afford to be on for the rest of his life if that's what he decided he wants to do. What I don't understand is why there is so much glorification of weapons owned by or associated with criminals. Bonnie & Clyde, Dillinger, Ma Barker ... Looney ... these low lifes were no better than the thugs and creeps that form the modern dregs of society, including the likes of Dennis Rader (aka BTK). Anyhoo, once items like TSMGs become the stuff of Butterfield & Butterfield and Sotheby type auctions, you know pricing is only going to go up. You know what you need to do! Sven

Walter - Not knocking your educated guess. I have no idea what that forearm oddity could be, and wanted to be certain that all who reads my post knows that my guess is not based on any authoritative evidence but just pure speculation. Peace, brother ... Sven

Another simple wild ass guess: field expediency ... makeshift replacement adapted from chopped / cut down BAR forearm. Sven

Agree. The catastrophic event that caved in the back of the receiver probably killed its owner. The opening may have rusted through after the initial impact. Because the damage is from the outside going in (concave), it probably wasn't a result of the gun's action. Probably Savage made? The Savage 1928s seem to have more pronounced radius on the receiver cuts for accepting drums. Sven

If you pay NM taxes, and maintain a bona fide residence in NM, then you shouldn't have any problems using the NM address to receive the transfer. If you have a spouse living at the NM address, you're in even better shape. The only problem is that you should be present in person to receive the transfer when it comes through, and to secure it from unauthorized access or possession thereafter. Some states have regs which make it a crime for anyone who is not the licensed owner of the machinegun to have access and control over it without the presence and direct supervision of the owner. Maybe you can get home on leave when your gun is ready to transfer. Afterall, if you don't you will go nuts waiting 2 years to get your hands on it. Another dilemma: How will you get your fingerprints done and NM CLEO sign-off / certification from out there in the sandbox? Maybe some others can chime in ... Sven

Robert - I think you're entitled to post negative feedback on Brian for not following the auction rules, which are easy to understand. But, you are the better man for not going bezerk and cuckholding the guy for his obvious error in judgement. I do think, however, that he was overconfident that competing bidders would without a doubt drive the price above any reserve value. This is not Brian's first auction - so he's not a newbie to the rules of the game. Sven

Heard the same as Sig. Already spoken for. Dueling bidders with deep pockets. $80K not including buyer's premium. Sven

AT I has plenty of info on the M1s with the triangle profile ears on the rear sight ... If you are into the war-time Thompsons, you really need to acquire both AT volumes. Set up a tent with a cot and a kerosene lamp. Bring your M1 TSMG and the two volumes of AT, and you've got everything you need to be happy until your move is complete. The only furniture that's important is the one that's on your gun! Sven

M3talhead - The only on-line listing of TSMG serial numbers by quantity and year of manufacture, that I know of, is only for the West Hurley production. American Thunder II has a factory listing of production numbers, by year, for Savage and AOC TSMGS combined. It does not, however, provide any breakdowns by specific model. One way to get the high serial numbers for the M1 is to examine the serial number on the ones that were rebuilt and overstamped to the 'A1' config. The serial numbers on those guns would mark the transition from M1 to M1A1. AT II has close-up pics of these guns that you could extrapolate from. Sven

Re-wats can command high prices these days if they are done well (i.e. welds are clean and without porosity, ground flush and don't interfere with factory rollmarks, are not obviously visible, and the receiver properly aligned and heat treated). $12K is possible to find for a WH 1928. However, that figure is generally pricing from early 2005. $14-$15K is on average what the WH TSMG's are going for, in excellent condition. The WH M1 seems to be priced around $500 to $1000 less than the WH 1928 in equal condition. On the value of a quality re-wat w/ re-welded receiver, I would split the difference between the average cost of a WH M1 ($14) and the bottom end pricing for a fully-intact AOC / Savage M1 ($18K). Sven

Tim, There's always a huge element of trust in any purchase where you exchange your hard earned bucks for something you haven't examined in person. I looked for the ad you described, but the format doesn't match the way machineguns are posted for sale on subguns.com Cracks don't form in the receiver metal, on WH Thompsons, unless the gun is subject to unusually heavy use or abusive treatment. The problem is far more likely to happen with the WH 1928 than the WH M1 when they are run hard. If you've already committed to the seller to make the purchase, then it would less than honorable to back out now. However, before making the commitment to buy, it is usually a good idea to ask lots of questions to get the most accurate understanding of what you're buying and to assess how responsive the seller is to you. For $14,000, my expectations would be for the WH M1 to be in excellent condition ... with only a couple hundred rounds through it at most ... and only the most minimal wear to the bore and finish. Sven

So ... What happened? Is the seller sending the drum to you for the nice price? If it doesn't work out, don't do the whiney "I'm gonna' call my lawyer and sue" crap. Otherwise, you gotta' put your money where your mouth is and hire that barrister or else be all bark and no bite. The mind that retains a legal eagle for all that they cost somehow seems contrary to the mind that seeks every day low, low prices on the internet. Sven

American Thunder II ... Page 265: M1 to M1A1 Page 266: M1A1 to M1 (!!) If your M1A1 has the "U.S. Property" marks -- that might be worth a premium down the road for collectors who crave Uncle Sam's imprimatur. Sven

You don't have to use hearing protection made exclusively for shooting. Any industrial grade muffs that attenuates the sound by 28 - 29 db will do. Of course, the more attenuation the better. Peltor makes the most full featured electronic models. But, I don't particularly care for the electronic muffs - the ambient noises are very distracting and the muffs usually on the whole don't offer the max sound attenuation. Also, there is the tendency to forget to turn 'em off after leaving the range ... 9 volt batteries can get expensive if you keep replacing them every trip to the range! I usually carry several models in my shooting bag. I now grab for the cheapo silencio model with no electronics and the 29 db reduction. Foam plugs are a great add-on if someone is shooting .50 BMG next to you. You can get good ones at the CVS drug stores for much cheaper than what the gun stores sell plugs for. I'd like to find muffs that don't interfere with my cheek weld when shooting rifle. Turning the cuff to the back of the head works to a degree but opens up lots of gaps for letting in high pressure sound waves. A Google on [Peltor "hearing protection"] will turn up lots of info and sources. Sven

I think the Machinegun News tallies included SBR, suppressors, DDs, AOWs, pre-86 dealer samples, and non-transferable stuff registered to PDs. Cut away all these outliers and the number of registered, transferable machineguns is probably around 150,000. Everytime there's a serious OOB discharge, another one bites the dust. In the last 10 years, I've seen two C&R MG-42 and one transferable Colt M16-A2 get blown up beyond repair. That's just the observations of one person. Could be vastly more train wrecks happening out there each year driving down the number of transferables. Sven

Problem with all these foreign parts kits is that there is always scaling (rust) mixed in with the crusted up cosmolene. By the time you clean off all the cosmo to confirm the rust, you've altered the original condition of the kit and the seller can refuse to take it back. Ohio Ordnance shows up at a lot of big gun shows with their boxed up parts kits for the TSMG. You can examine the contents in person before you buy. They have Savage and AOC 1928A1 kits with both the smooth and finned barrels. Your time is money, too. Better the avoid the heartburn of buying old stuff sight unseen only to find it to be a rust bucket in the light of day, and then the hassel of making returns and getting refunds. Sven

All the above is good advice. One thing to confirm is that the firearm is actually in the seller's possession ... meaning that it is papered to him on an F3, F4 or F5. Stay away from deals where a dealer is selling an item that is not yet in his inventory - too many of those go bad, and then more than one person get screwed. Might also be worthwhile to confirm that it is a "good shooter" in person. Running a mag or two thru the gun will quickly reveal any critical defects. If the gun has been shot a lot, a careful inspection for hairline cracks at the rear of the receiver can't hurt. Good Luck, Sven