Hellp With My 1927a1 Deluxe

[steely]

First off, thanks for looking,

Every time I pull the trigger on my '27 A1 Deluxe the empty shell comes partially out, flips around and is pinned by the bolt, half in, half out of the breech, with the bolt face

shoved into the opening of the empty shell case

 

http://s646.photobucket.com/albums/uu188/s...nt=DSC_4365.jpg

 

http://s646.photobucket.com/albums/uu188/s...nt=DSC_4367.jpg

 

this gun has had some internal damage due to a shell exploding with the breech partially open, I had to replace a few parts including the main spring, the spring I took out was much shorter than the one I replaced it with, and the difference in length was made up with a small brass sleeve that was damaged when the shell exploded.

 

My initial thinking is that the new spring is slamming the bolt closed too quickly and pinning the shell

 

does that make sense?

 

any thoughts?

Edited April 8, 2009 by steely

[Hawkeye_Joe]

Go to photobucket and sign up, it's free, upload your pics and then you can post them on the board.

[roertmcw]

What is the red stuff?

 

Robert

[JTinIN]

Since some parts were damaged, would take a closer look at anything that effects extraction and ejection of the case.

If something slows down the extraction and/or changes the angles that the case ejects on, then you can have all sorts of issues.

If any thing in this area was replaced, sounds like the replaced part has to be still suspected due to the differences between your

firearm and a stock Thompson as indicated by the spring (plus any full auto vs semi changes).

- Could your extractor have been bent / weakened?

- Same for the ejector (is may have been displaced / bent / deformed).

- Any damage to the bolt face

- Any damage to the chamber (slowing down extraction can greatly change ejection).

[photonance]

Since some parts were damaged, would take a closer look at anything that effects extraction and ejection of the case.

If something slows down the extraction and/or changes the angles that the case ejects on, then you can have all sorts of issues.

If any thing in this area was replaced, sounds like the replaced part has to be still suspected due to the differences between your

firearm and a stock Thompson as indicated by the spring (plus any full auto vs semi changes).

- Could your extractor have been bent / weakened?

- Same for the ejector (is may have been displaced / bent / deformed).

- Any damage to the bolt face

- Any damage to the chamber (slowing down extraction can greatly change ejection).

 

I had a similar issue with my Savage '28 after a cartridge malfunction. After the malfunction, the gun would not eject the cartridges very far, and would sometimes turn the case backwards like yours and get stuck. I tried new bolts thinking it was the extractor, and it did not change, once I changed out the ejector, the problem was solved. After taking the old ejector out, it looked like it had gotten slightly deformed. It may not fix your gun, but it sounds like the same problem.

[PhilOhio]

Steely,

 

Somebody had problems with this gun earlier, which may be why they sold it. First they tried to shorten the mainspring. That turned out to be a mistake, so they tried making it longer again, inserting the brass sleeve. Then the thing fired out of battery and blew up. Maybe at that point it was "sort of" fixed and sold. So you have to start from the beginning.

 

Be sure you have an extractor with a good, sharp edge to grasp the case rim AND NOT SLIP OFF; the spring metal has to be stiff. And for it to stay on, the recess in the bolt face also has to be correctly cut and not damaged by the previous accident.

 

Snap an empty case into the bolt face and see if it is held snugly. If it is loose, you have a problem with the bolt face or extractor. With the mainspring removed, see how it ejects an empty case when you smartly pull back the actuator.

 

Be sure the ejector is properly aligned with its cut in the bolt head, extends most of the way to the bottom of this cut, and is not peened or bent.

 

Be sure you have the correct mainspring for this semiauto gun.

 

As JTinIN noted, you could also have a chamber problem, which may not be so easily diagnosed. But if your fired brass cases show any roughness or deep scoring of the walls, it's a big problem which has to be fixed. Most often, the only way to do this is by replacing the barrel. And by the way, stay away from steel cases.

 

So it's a matter of getting back to square one; or maybe earlier, since far less than 100% of the semi Thompsons come from the factory in operable condition.

 

If none of that works, it's time for a visit to Dr. PK.

[Z3BigDaddy]

What is the red stuff?

 

Robert

 

Primer sealer?

[Hawkeye_Joe]

It seems the case is not getting the kick it needs to flip out of the ejection slot, I'd replace the ejector first, then the extractor.

[PhilOhio]

It seems the case is not getting the kick it needs to flip out of the ejection slot, I'd replace the ejector first, then the extractor.

 

I'd replace nothing, before doing a little methodical eyeball work and experimentation to identify the problem.

 

We used to say that no mysterious automotive problem needs to remain unresolved if you just jack up the radiator cap and put a new car under it. Same with guns, but it gets expensive and is pointless.

 

[james m]

My first thought here was the ejector is probably broken causing the jams so unscrew it out of the frame for an inspection. Overall, due to the history of this gun, I think a good argument can be made for a professional assessment and perhaps a rehab. I not sure the gun is in actually safe to fire condition right now and that's troublesome to me.

Jim

[PhilOhio]

My first thought here was the ejector is probably broken causing the jams so unscrew it out of the frame for an inspection. Overall, due to the history of this gun, I think a good argument can be made for a professional assessment and perhaps a rehab. I not sure the gun is in actually safe to fire condition right now and that's troublesome to me.

Jim

 

Steely,

 

James is probably right on target with his last sentence. That depends upon how confident you are with your own ability to troubleshoot the problem. If you are not, it may be prudent to let somebody with the necessary skills have a look. Of course, that takes money and time. Any competent gunsmith should be able to deal with the basic safety issues on a semi like this, but if you can afford the cash and the delays, you can't beat sending the gun to one of the board-recomended Thompsonsmiths.

 

[Hawkeye_Joe]

It seems the case is not getting the kick it needs to flip out of the ejection slot, I'd replace the ejector first, then the extractor.

 

I'd replace nothing, before doing a little methodical eyeball work and experimentation to identify the problem.

 

We used to say that no mysterious automotive problem needs to remain unresolved if you just jack up the radiator cap and put a new car under it. Same with guns, but it gets expensive and is pointless.

 

 

The two parts are pretty much standard spare parts to have around anyway, and they are not expensive. If their replacement doesn't work then you are not out a lot of time and money and you have eliminated the two most likely causes. Sometimes methodical eyeballs can't see what the problem is. I'm not saying start replacing every part until you hit the right one, but since the case is just reversing in the feed area the two parts are a logical choice.

[steely]

thanks for all the tips guys,

I will take a closer look at the extractor, ejector, and bolt face

your right, that is the most likely problem area

and may be easy to replace,

if I can't locate the problem,

I'll look for a pro

[steely]

thanks again every one,

took a closer look at the extractor and

noticed some damage that I had previously missed,

have an new one on the way

steely