n64atlas Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 There has been a discusion on the jouster board about Reising slings. I just realized the sling I got on the Reising M65 from the Jeff Reising estate was a Reising light green sling. It has the same spacing between the lift-a-dot as the Kacki slings I have. This has steel tips and slide. In the discusion, one gentelman says that none of the Reising slings were ever issued. Stating the swivials were too wide for a 1" sling even on the M65. They fit my M65 like they are suppost to. Any dockuments that the slings were issued on the different models of Reising? What of the Green sling, is this late WWII, before they went to the dark olive drab? I have had a carbine C tip that color in my shop. It is on a friends M1 Carbine. Were the early slings, Boyt marked as I've seen on-line and in Frank's book. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 n64atlas, Can you post a picture of your sling? David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n64atlas Posted July 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 Here are 4 slings top to bottom: Kacki M1 carbine Kacki Reising sling light green Reising sling Late OD M1 Carbine sling The carbine slings are longer than the Reising slings http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/n64atlas/002-2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 n64atlas, Thank you for posting your pictures. Are there any markings on either of the Reising slings? I can say, without any doubt, that Reising slings were issued. I will post proof soon in the form of a USMC filmstrip that has many pictures of the sling in use in training during WWII. David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n64atlas Posted July 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 n64atlas, Thank you for posting your pictures. Are there any markings on either of the Reising slings? I can say, without any doubt, that Reising slings were issued. I will post proof soon in the form of a USMC filmstrip that has many pictures of the sling in use in training during WWII. David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com No markings on any of the slings I have. I have read were Boyt marked some slings. A couple of repo, carbine slins I have are marked Boyt 42. They must have copied a Reising sling :^} I was going to post a pic of that one too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmagee1917 Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Well , I'm not exactly a gentleman , but it twas I . My point on the forum was not that the sling could not be used nor that it would not fit. Rather is was that due to the sling fitting a narrower swivel than the Reisings were fitted with , it was not designed FOR the Reising , and due to the timeline of events , not likely. My points are better explaned in a previous posting here. http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/ind...showtopic=11998 The film is very cool. Thanks for taking the time to save and post it. It shows that they were issued at least in training. But lots of things were issued in training ( like 1917 Enfields and older models of MGs ) that were replaced when fight'n time came. By the time this film was made , the Reising's sun had set as a front line combat arm. I'm sure it was used stateside to free up M1s , Thompsons , and Greaseguns for overseas use , thus the existance of the film. I do need to post pics of the "wide " M1 carbine slings , but note that I have no solid info on them as far as when made and by whom and for what. They do fit the full size ( width) rifle sling swivels the Reising came with , but these could just as easily be forign production or a bag carring strap. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n64atlas Posted July 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Take a look at the flat part of the sling loop on your M50 or M65. A 1 1/4 sling will fit in the loop, but it will not lay flat. The loop starts it's curve at 1". If it was intended for a 1 1/4 sling, a Kerr No buckl would fit. It does not fit a M65 loop without forcing it. Then the sling will not sit on the flat. Put that sing on a M1 Garand and it will lay flat. When you run a tight sling like the USMC likes to do, a 1 1/4 will not lay flat in the loop. That will not go well with the sargent I'm sure. When this heat drops some and I can get home, I will take some picks of each and show you what I mean. The flat is the desiding factor of what sling is correct to the design. Reanber, you are dealing with the USMC, they are spit and polish more so than the other branches. Boyt may have never met the deadling, but not all Reising slings were Boyt marked. Though they stopped the contrat whit Reising, They still used these thru out the war. The M65 was being used into the 1950's. I'll also have to check the M65 modified aka MC 58 stock I have, to seee if they changed the loop for the 1907 sling (which was not used much after the start of WWII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmagee1917 Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) Interesting point. I'll check that out later this week. I did notice the Kerrs were hard to fit on some of the swivels , but then again the Kerrs are impossible to fit into the front swivel of the trench guns which were made for the 1907 sling. They almost go in , but not by a smidge. It has been a consistant smidge , however , in my two Winchesters and my Savage and in two friends Winchesters. Chris Edited July 5, 2011 by emmagee1917 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n64atlas Posted July 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Interesting point. I'll check that out later this week. I did notice the Kerrs were hard to fit on some of the swivels , but then again the Kerrs are impossible to fit into the front swivel of the trench guns which were made for the 1907 sling. They almost go in , but not by a smidge. It has been a consistant smidge , however , in my two Winchesters and my Savage and in two friends Winchesters. Chris Interestng about the trench gun. I'ii half to measure a 1907 sling to see if it is a true 1 1/4 width. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprat Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 n64 atlas nice comparision photo of the slings, first thing I noticed on the reisning slings was the end tabs were not C tip's, also do you have approx distance from the stud to the snap ? also you state that the resing slings are shorter if so approximately by how much thanks again sprat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmagee1917 Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 If you look closely at the Kerr , you'll see that the snap head's solid "J" section is a bit wider than the triangular rivet part where the webbing attaches. That little bit of extra width screws it up for fitting into the front swivel. It is frustrating because it is sooooooo close to going in. A little work with a file should clear it , but I won't do that. The Kerr does fit into the rear swivel , but I have not checked the afore talked about lie therein. I just need to find the time to study this out. I have dozens of 1907 , Kerr , 1923 , "Reising " , M1 carbine , M1 Garand web and 4 of the mystery slings. I have 1903s, 1917s, 1903A3s , 1903A4s , M1s , M1Cs and Ds , Bar , Thompsons and Greaseguns , and just about one of all the WW2 trainers ( 3 of the M65s ). Don't think I can bring them all to work and lay them out to study on the front counter. Sprat , going by my memory , the M1 sling pulled tight will rest the buckle a inch or two in front of the mag well , the Reising just aft of it , around the mag release / safety area. So about 2-3 inches X2 for two layers , so 4-6 inches total on the gun. Laid out on a table , this would be shorter because of the front section being laid out too. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n64atlas Posted July 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 The reisings slings are around 1" shorter than a late Carbinn sling and 3 5/8 shorter tha a C tip. This is with the snaps open. The distance beteen the snaps is 4" center to center. The Kerr sling will fit the front loop on a M1 Garand, the trick is to snap it on the loop then unsnap it to puss it through. You can't just slid it thru the loop. Now for a test: I have a sling that looks like a Web M1 Garand post war sling with the raised area on the buckel. It is 1.475" wide web and the buckel is 1.901. A Garand sling measures 1.255 and buckel at 1.440. Do you know what this sling is for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n64atlas Posted July 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I found my brass tipped Reising Kacki sling. The one I have pictured is steel tipped. I never noticed that befor. Does it have the right weave? It is the longest of the Reising slings I have. The brass tiped it 1" shorter than the longest. Of the Reising slings you guys have in your collection, are they all the same length? Do you think these have been repaired or is the long one a fake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmagee1917 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 They were made with old world craftsmanship , but I have seen variations of up to an inch or so in the same type. There are three lengths common to these . The longest is the 1917 Kerr made for the M1917 Enfield. It could also be used on the 1903 if it has the sliding loop on it . You then feed the back section like the front , short'ng it up. The next longest is the 1903 Kerr , for want of a better term to call it. It is shorter to fit the 1903. Both are marked with the Kerr pat. dates and such. The third is the WW2 era M3 for the Thompson which was made more as a carry only sling and is the shortest of them all and has none of the pat. stamping. Post pics of your sling and I'll tell you if it's real. Include shots of both sides of the spring clip ends. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmagee1917 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Just popped up on Milsurp , kindda funny. Oh , n64atlas , no real knowledge on your wide sling , but did not the early 40MM bloop tubes use a wide sling ? The multi-shot harmonica mag ones ? They're out of my WW2 era of knowledge I'm afraid. http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=32226 Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n64atlas Posted July 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Just popped up on Milsurp , kindda funny. Oh , n64atlas , no real knowledge on your wide sling , but did not the early 40MM bloop tubes use a wide sling ? The multi-shot harmonica mag ones ? They're out of my WW2 era of knowledge I'm afraid. http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=32226 Chris When I bought the wide sling, I was told it was a late, mybe post war, BAR sling. I belive the BAR used a wider sling than the M1Garand ect. Could be for the 40mm also. would have to see the swivels to see if it would fit. The different length slings I was refering to, were the Reising slings. The research continues. :banghead: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmagee1917 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Woops , sorry I misread that by a long shot :slap: . The BAR ( I have one ) uses the standard 1907 sling with an added section ( three strap segments ) for a longer length. I believe there was also a 10 ( ish) inch longer web M1 Garand type sling , too. Those may be for the M14 Squad Automatic Weapon ( M-15 ? ) though. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmagee1917 Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Bringing a old thread back. Still need to post those pics of the wide carbine type sling. Getting subject , cammera , working batteries , backdrop , a computor to post to photobucket , remembering how , the attachment to do so , etc. etc. strains my little head . Having to spend every waking hour on the job or empting my mom's house for a month didn't help , nor did a bad fall that busted up my insides for a month of mending speed things up either.Anyway , the reason for the resurrection is that I just recieved a copy of Tom Laemlein's " US Small Arms in World War II " . It has a smallish ( 13 page ) section on the Reisings . In the 26 pictures therein are shown 55 or so Reisings. Of these 55 , 10 did not have slings , and they were all stateside training photos . Of the other 45 , all had web type slings . I saw no 1907 leather nor any that looked to be Kerr or 1923 types. On 33 I could see the carbine type snaps , on the other 12 I could not , but they looked to be carbine width and not M1 sling width. All the sling tips that were clear enough to make out are the solid Reising sling type and not the "C" tip type . This includes many guns identified as in the invasion fleet to and on Guadalcanal. Many were not clear enough that the "C " type may have been there in some number. All the wide carbine slings I have are "C" type tips and appear not to have been used on the Reisings.So , all in all , I guess that one would have to state that , except for the odd case , all Reisings should be expected to wear the Reising sling . Don't you just hate it when the facts get in the way of a good theory ? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 There are some really good shots of Reising slings in use on Reising Model 50's in the USMC Reising Instructional Filmstrip that I have pinned to the top of the board. David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmagee1917 Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Well , one thing I realized today is a bit of another puzzle on this subject. There are pics that are supposedly of pre and early Guadalcanal that show solid tip Reising type slings . If these are true in thier captions , then these are not carbine slings , for the cresent tips went into '44 , yes ? Therefore the solid tiped carbine slings that came out in '44 or '45 could not have been around in Aug of '42. Also , the USMC request from Aug of '43 could not have been aimed at the introduction of the reising slings that were already around for at least a year. Could there be '42 /'43 production Reising slings that did not have the extra length at the snap end ? ( The Aug of '43 request being aimed at only the modification to an existing sling ? )Ah , the answer and correction of one theory and question always seems to open more questions.Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmagee1917 Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Well , it only took a couple of years , but here are the photos I promised. First is a carbine sling ( may be repro ) , the unknown sling , and an original M1 Web sling. The unknown is just a hair under the Garand in width.http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm185/emmagee1917/DSCF0016_zpsa04f3a9a.jpgThe second shows the " united carr " snap and the two tone weave . I have four of these slings , and the other three are the dark shade only.http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm185/emmagee1917/DSCF0017_zps0038faae.jpgThis is the other side with " lift the dot " .http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm185/emmagee1917/DSCF0018_zps4a66c5ab.jpghttp://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm185/emmagee1917/DSCF0019_zpsb147b39b.jpg Could this be the Aug of '43 Marine order ?Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgeport28A1 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Your middle sling lift the dot and snap location would need to farther apart to be a Reising sling from everything I've read about the Reising slings. I also have never seen a legit WW2 web sling with two-tone basketweave webbing. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 I don't think any of the Reising web slings have "C" clip ends. They have the solid, "D" clip ends. This can be very clearly seen in several of the slides from the 1943 instructional filmstrip that is featured in a pinned post on the board. I have also not seen a 2-tone sling like that, so not sure of it's origin. I think Ross is also right about the snap length being that of a Carbine sling. David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmagee1917 Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Yes , the Reising slings were all "D" tip and long spaced in the snap area from the begining . They show up in the photos of the Marines going to Guadalcanal in Aug '42. The Marines requested a new type of sling in Aug.'43 for the Reising. Question is ...what was the change requested ? We had assumed it was the tips , snap spacing , or leather to web , but all these were present a year before , so what was it ?The unknown sling poped up for sale about 4 years ago at various sites. Some thought they were for bazookas . I bought a couple just to have , half thinking they were modern fakes , but fakes of what ? Then a couple of months later , the two toned one appeared , so I snagged it. Only paid about $5 or so each , so noone was going to get rich off them. But then they all dried up and blew away. Not making any claims on them , just asking if anyone had seen this before. They came and went so fast.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted June 16, 2013 Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 I'm planning on updating the Reising Reference pinned section at the top of the page regarding information on slings. I've come to the conclusion, based on observations, collection, and comparison to original period photos that the manufacturer marked Reising slings are reproductions. This includes the "F-S Co." marked slings (Of which I do not have an example on my collection), and the slings marked "Boyt -43-," to include examples with the additional "U.S.M.C." marking. I have hesitated to call the "Boyt -43-" marked slings reproduction because they were indicated as original in Frank Iannamico's book on the Reising, but I've concluded now that more information has become available, and certainly my understanding of what are reproduction Reising slings has evolved. I’m posting the photos below for review and commentary, which I will update in the pinned post soon. Please let me know your thoughts, and if anyone has an major disagreement with my conclusions. http://www.sturmgewehr.com/dalbert/Reising/SlingCompare-1_Web.JPG http://www.sturmgewehr.com/dalbert/Reising/SlingCompare-2_Web.JPG http://www.sturmgewehr.com/dalbert/Reising/SlingCompare-3_Web.JPG David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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