Question About Adding Stock And Long Barrel To M1911

[dalbert]

I was at the Louisville Gun Show (National Gun Day Show) today with TD, and while talking with friends, we were asked a question that no one could answer with 100% certainty, so I wanted to post it here for commentary.

 

If you have an M1911 pistol, is it legal to add an aftermarket 16"+ barrel, and an aftermarket shoulder stock? Or, can the shoulder stock not be added?

 

At first, I was thinking it was not a legal combination, but after thinking about it a while, I think it may be ok. Your thoughts?

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[ron_brock]

I don't think you can convert a pistol into a carbine. A 1911 specifically built to be a carbine should be OK, but I do not think a conversion is legal. I am basing this on UZI, AK and AR builds. They can be a pistol or carbine, but not both. Also it's like the TC Encore. You can have a rifle or a pistol, but you could add a rifle stock to the pistol, or a pistol grip to the rifle.

 

That said, I am not 100% certain of the legalities of this, it was just my understanding. I've also seen carbine kits for Glocks so there must be some way to use these without issue.

 

- Ron

Edited March 3, 2013 by ron_brock

[TSMGguy]

Quite legal to do. It's also not unlawful to possess such componants. There's a BATFE decision out on this subject. I'll try to find and post it here. Edited March 3, 2013 by TSMGguy

[TSMGguy]

Here ya go. The germane paragraph is first, followed by the entire decision:

 

"Therefore, so long as a parts kit or collection of parts is not used to make a firearm regulated under the NFA (e.g., a short-barreled rifle or “any other weapon” as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(e)), no NFA firearm is made when the same parts are assembled or re-assembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., a pistol, or a rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length). Merely assembling and disassembling such a rifle does not result in the making of a new weapon; rather, it is the same rifle in a knockdown condition (i.e., complete as to all component parts). Likewise, because it is the same weapon when reconfigured as a pistol, no “weapon made from a rifle” subject to the NFA has been made."

 

 

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf

[dalbert]

TSMGguy,

 

Thanks for the info! Much appreciated. I will pass it along to the person who was asking us about it.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[TSMGguy]

This question came up elsewhere in a slightly different form recently. A gent wanted to know of he could legally mill a stock slot into the frame of his tangent sighted Browning Capitan High Power, to mimic a gun produced in that configuarion by Browning. The answer is no, because the slot and the ability to mount a stock are allowed only in guns originally produced with the slot or mount and mentoned in the BATFE C&R listing.

 

I bought a new condition tangent sight slotted FN Herstal Belgian High Power that was produced but not delivered under a miltary contract in (IIRC) the 1990s. These were imported in numbers by Vector Arms and are so importer marked. They have 511 and 245 serial number prefixes. These guns have the butt stock slot but are not specifically mentoned in the C&R list, so I believe that it's not allowable to mount such a stock. My 245 prefix pistol falls just outside of the serial number range that is mentioned in the list.

Edited March 4, 2013 by TSMGguy

[jl7422]

TSMGguy,

 

In your Vector Arms High Power example, I am curious by what justification is it allowable to attach a stock (reproduction or original) to a High Power not specifcally mentioned in the C&R list?

 

thanks

[emmagee1917]

You need to be careful to do it in the right order. Put the 16 inch bbl on first , stock after. Take stock off first , then remove 16-inch bbl. This way at no time you'll have an unregistered SBR. I know it may sound a little paranoid , but life happens and sometime you may be called away in the middle of it 1/2 way through.

Chris

[TSMGguy]

TSMGguy,

 

In your Vector Arms High Power example, I am curious by what justification is it allowable to attach a stock (reproduction or original) to a High Power not specifcally mentioned in the C&R list?

 

thanks

 

Poor wording on my part. I don't believe that it would be legal to mount a detachable shoulder stock to an otherwise unmodified Belgian High Power, except to those mentioned in the BATFE Curio & Relics list, or to even have such a stock in close proximity to the gun.

Edited March 4, 2013 by TSMGguy