OCM Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 StooperZero--sorry to hijack the thread--mods please move/edit as appropriate.)NP.. no luck finding either one anywhere.... my boys AT rifle project and other large things have sucked my my gun $$ for this quarter.GB had maybe 3-4 07 Winchesters in 351 couple days ago, some in rough shape ( cheap) . Couple other auction house about the same, few listed. I just purchased a Lebman conversion ( bit the bullet ) two days ago. This one, in particular, was dead on the ones I have pictured from the 34 arrest in Tucson. Will be a nice addition to my outlaw gun collection. Guys at Bull Creek seem very nice to deal with too. Have some ammo for it , from my old 07 I had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim c 351 Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 Sandy, Good for you. Congratulations. Did you buy the one that was on gunbroker?? Hopefully it came with a 10 shot mag. Post pics when you receive it. By the way.--When searching on gunbroker be sure to search 2 ways, Winchester 07 and Winchester 1907. Different guns, parts and mags will be found this way. Jim C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 Sandy, Good for you. Congratulations. Did you buy the one that was on gunbroker?? Hopefully it came with a 10 shot mag. Post pics when you receive it. By the way.--When searching on gunbroker be sure to search 2 ways, Winchester 07 and Winchester 1907. Different guns, parts and mags will be found this way. Jim C Yes sir- I looked at couple others they had listed, but as a complete geek on the subject, this one suits me perfect. Yes comes with a 10 shot mag. ( got the standard 5 ) . Next they need to do the Lebman Colt mini, unfortunately, I think putting on a Thompson grip on a Colt 1911 Super is illegal. I had a dummy of it on display, cool little weapon, rather insane tho. Baby Face Nelson gun, also insane. Thanks- OH, BTW, I used your 28N spring device last week, damn thing works great. Still waiting for the patent, I assume. I see they are selling on Ebay for $89.00... only kidding. Pictures to come of course.. Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmagee1917 Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 I think putting on a Thompson grip on a Colt 1911 Super is illegal.Sandy Not illegal , just register it as an AOW . $200 tax for you to make or have a class 3 mfg ( class 7 ? ) make it and pay $5 tax.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) I think putting on a Thompson grip on a Colt 1911 Super is illegal. Sandy Not illegal , just register it as an AOW . $200 tax for you to make or have a class 3 mfg ( class 7 ? ) make it and pay $5 tax. Chris [/quote Chris- Can you explain a bit on this, AOW ? First have no idea how Lebman mounted the grip. I have an old article on it somewhere. The boys up at Bull Creek might look at this since they are Duping gangster guns. Comp wouldn't be a hassle. Here is the Lebman gun , I think a 38 Super was used, this I believe is a 45. Edited September 19, 2013 by OCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StooperZero Posted September 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 I was going to do that a few years back when the turnaround for form 1's was 25-30 days. I have shot an aow 1911 before and I can see why some favored this setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim c 351 Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 First have no idea how Lebman mounted the grip. Sandy,Lebman probably modified a TSMG grip hanger and brazed or welded it to the 1911 frame.If you decide to go this route, please do not use a 1930's Colt. Use a beater Essex frame 1911.Jim C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmagee1917 Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 AOW is a dumping ground for any weapon that is " illegal " but does not fit into the MG , DD , SBR , SBS slots. You are right that having the foregrip on the pistol without the paperwork would be akin to having an unpapered FA Thompson.To make one , you must first have the paperwork in hand . On AOWs the making tax ( a form one ) is the same $200 as any other form one . Works the same way , send in and get approved , then build the piece.The one factor you might consider , however , is that licensed manufacturers do not pay the $200 making tax as thier license fees take care of that. They do have to charge the transfer fee to you and wait till the transfer is approved to let you have it , same as all other transfers. The key here , though , is that AOWs transfer on a $5 stamp , not the standard $200 stamp .This allows you $195 in " free " money to help pay to have it made for you by him. Depending on the cost , it may be cheeper to pay him than do it yourself.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StooperZero Posted September 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 one method I saw years ago was tig welding a modified thompson grip bar to the bottom of the 1911. I have the whole pdf on the conversion and just about all the fun stuff they did to their pistols in the 20's and 30's in detail on my dead hard drive in the closet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 Boy, that's a lot of work just to mount a vert Thompson grip on a Colt 45 or Super 38. If it was legal to switch it over to FA, I might consider it, but it is not. I'd heard someone does have one in FA out there and legal. Ramos had a great article on this in SAR a while back, got it somewhere- Thanks, Chris, Jim and Stopper- Zero Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jl7422 Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 Got the opportunity to try a full-auto 1911 a couple of years ago at Big Sandy (post sample I think) --I couldn't get it to cycle more than one round, although the owner could dump mag after mag. I tried every hold I could think of; one hand, two hands too tight, too loose, nothing seemed to work. But in his hands, it ran like a top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Sandy, Good for you. Congratulations. Did you buy the one that was on gunbroker?? Hopefully it came with a 10 shot mag. Post pics when you receive it. By the way.--When searching on gunbroker be sure to search 2 ways, Winchester 07 and Winchester 1907. Different guns, parts and mags will be found this way. Jim CHi Jim, Pictures as requested- These guys ( Tom ) did a hell of a good job on this, I'm very impressed. Gun is basically restored to a HS Lebman 07 from 1934. May have to talk to them about mounting a Thompson grip on a 45 or Super 38. As Chris said a AOW. We'll see. Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim c 351 Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 Sandy,That is one beautiful 07. Just looking at your bench I can visualize the beginning of a new gangster museum.Congratulations.Jim C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 AOW is a dumping ground for any weapon that is " illegal " but does not fit into the MG , DD , SBR , SBS slots. You are right that having the foregrip on the pistol without the paperwork would be akin to having an unpapered FA Thompson. To make one , you must first have the paperwork in hand . On AOWs the making tax ( a form one ) is the same $200 as any other form one . Works the same way , send in and get approved , then build the piece. The one factor you might consider , however , is that licensed manufacturers do not pay the $200 making tax as thier license fees take care of that. They do have to charge the transfer fee to you and wait till the transfer is approved to let you have it , same as all other transfers. The key here , though , is that AOWs transfer on a $5 stamp , not the standard $200 stamp .This allows you $195 in " free " money to help pay to have it made for you by him. Depending on the cost , it may be cheeper to pay him than do it yourself. Chris I talked to the guys at Bull Creek, they said they have to pay the $200 tax stamp and wait the year or whatever it takes these days, then I pay the 5 bucks. At least they are thinking about it. Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 Sandy, That is one beautiful 07. Just looking at your bench I can visualize the beginning of a new gangster museum. Congratulations. Jim CNope, no more museums- That was about a 42 year collection effort, don't have that much time left anymore. Couple more shots of the 07 with the standard 5 rd magazine ..... Remember the old TV program, Have Gun Will Travel ? I've got Have Gun Need Ammo ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim c 351 Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 Sandy, I think its a violation of the Dillinger gang code to picture an 07 with a vertical foregrip and a 5 rd mag. Must be pictured with a 10 rd mag. Do you want to trade an extremely nice unmarked Colt mag for a box of factory 351 ammo?? If so, post a few pics and see if Arthur F certifies it as correct. Jim C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 Sandy, I think its a violation of the Dillinger gang code to picture an 07 with a vertical foregrip and a 5 rd mag. Must be pictured with a 10 rd mag. Do you want to trade an extremely nice unmarked Colt mag for a box of factory 351 ammo?? If so, post a few pics and see if Arthur F certifies it as correct. Jim CBUSTED.... this should get me back in good graces with the JD gang code. All Nelson's fault not me. A blank for a 351 box.... What's Dutch have to do with it ??? Hmmmmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim c 351 Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 Sandy, Now that's more like it. Never take the 10 rd mag out of that gun unless you are target shooting on the range. As far as A.F. is concerned , I only use him as an example of an authority on the subject. I wouldn't know a Blank Colt mag from a blank S.W. or blank A.O. or a blank Jap toy gun. What's the vintage of the 07? By the butt stock it looks like an early gun?? Jim C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted September 25, 2013 Report Share Posted September 25, 2013 Sandy, Now that's more like it. Never take the 10 rd mag out of that gun unless you are target shooting on the range. As far as A.F. is concerned , I only use him as an example of an authority on the subject. I wouldn't know a Blank Colt mag from a blank S.W. or blank A.O. or a blank Jap toy gun. What's the vintage of the 07? By the butt stock it looks like an early gun?? Jim C1913 production, 1883 produced that year. #30016. Ever deal with Load X out of California for ammo ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim c 351 Posted September 25, 2013 Report Share Posted September 25, 2013 Ever deal with Load X out of California for ammo? Never heard of them. Jim C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted September 25, 2013 Report Share Posted September 25, 2013 They advertise they have re manufactured Winchester 351 ammo about $41/box/50 or can reload. I've read comments on them, no problems but the powder can get pretty dirty, so more cleaning. They have a web site, out of Santa Rosa, Ca. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StooperZero Posted September 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2013 wow that's nice. is the hand gaurd metal? bakelite?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted September 26, 2013 Report Share Posted September 26, 2013 wow that's nice. is the hand gaurd metal? bakelite??Metal as original Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jl7422 Posted September 26, 2013 Report Share Posted September 26, 2013 OCM, As I look at the Load X catalog on-line, I notice the price for .351 of $41 is for 20rnds, not 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim c 351 Posted September 26, 2013 Report Share Posted September 26, 2013 OCM, As I look at the Load X catalog on-line, I notice the price for .351 of $41 is for 20rnds, not 50.The dam small print will get you every time. Jim C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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