Repeal The NFA Petition

[huggytree]

2,000 is what ive been told is the magic #......but i also saw there are supposed to be only 12 US property marked a2's....i have 1 of them...and ive kept track of how many have come up in the past 14 months and im close to 20....so obviously there's 50-100 of them+

 

who knows....

 

there will be endless FA trigger things......for 99.9% of people they will get the FA effect they want........just like now they have that stupid wrist stock to make a SBR legal w/o a stamp...there;s people working around the NFA laws.....

 

with my limited shooting of my M16 id say if i had to go to war with it id probably keep it in SA mode anyways......i havent learned to control the climb enough and in semi i can blast the F out of multiple targets all day long w/o a miss.....FA i miss all the time....but im a newbe with it

Edited February 12, 2017 by huggytree

[MontanaRenegade86]

 

Repeal it and make my $100,000 collection worth $4,000...its a double edged sword with total financial loss vs the joy of making FA's legal again...

 

i think its hopeless.....ill sign all day long to remove suppressors.......remove the NFA. completely?...i like my $$ too much

I think we should be happy with the way it is....under the radar and what we own are now investments.........for those who bought when thompsons were $500 its easy to say take them back to $500....but for those who bought at $26k its not so easy to sign a petition to make my investment go to nothing.....

id rather not lose $90,000+.........id rather sell them in 20 years for $250,000

 

It appears to me that you view your full auto collection as little more than a "usable" investment. Machine guns, in my opinion, are the worst possible investment choice one could make. Precious metals such as silver or gold would be less risky.

 

I, myself, have around $30k tied up in "cheap" machine guns at present. I buy them for enjoyment only and have no doubt that they could be rendered worthless by the stroke of an executive pen or judicial fiat. Would I be upset over loosing that much money? Absolutely. Would it financially break me? Hardly. Common sense and good judgement dictate that one should never risk more than he is able to lose.

Edited February 13, 2017 by MontanaRenegade86

[huggytree]

you are correct...i see it EXACTLY as that....a usable investment...They are not part of my retirement plan....i most likely plan to pass them down...but if i did need some $$ someday for a car i may sell one of them....

 

i doubt anything changes ever on these guns.....prices will continue to rise, machine guns will continue to be destroyed slowly over the years, demand will continue to rise....no investment is without risk...my mutual funds have dropped by 50% 3x in my investing life time...and that IS my retirement.....my house is worth less than i put into it...ive been here for 14 years, but spent too much on remodels to the point where i couldnt get close to what i have in it back out of it.....you could say my house is also a usable investment too....

 

 

ive bought and sold guns.....ive never lost $$ on any.....some i made $100+ on and enjoyed it for 25 years....others ive made 350% profit on and also enjoyed the hell out of it

 

 

 

i see Trump legalizing machine guns after he raises the speed limit to 200mph......i think you have a better chance on the speed limit than legalizing FA's again

[Sgt]

Not to say I'm against the petition, but I do have worries. Up until now the NFA items have been somewhat under the radar. We are an exclusive club, whose members are thoroughly vetted by the extreme cost of membership, plus the enormous initiation process. Let's say the repeal passes. Thousands more will own machineguns, increasing the chances they will be used in crimes, thus increasing the chances that the next Obama will successfully eliminate them altogether. I will probably sign the petition, but I need somebody to tell me I'm worrying for nothing.

[michaelkih]

I think the petitions are TERRIBLE ideas because of exactly what you just said. NFA has "protected" them as weird as it is to say that.

 

Nothing's getting repealed anyways though. People forget we are 1%-2% of the US population. No one cares if we don't get to own NFA anymore. Don't bring attention to it!

[huggytree]

you really think we are 1-2% of the population?

 

i dont even know if were 1/1000th of the population

 

180,000 machine guns...some guys own 200, most own more than 1...what is the average??? 2 to 5?

 

i think were 9,000 old white men with 1,000 other= 10,000 people with too much money

[83Baron]

The point is why bring attention to a somewhat exclusive club that only gets complicated if more get involved. We respect our rights while enjoying the freedoms they provide, but all it takes is one incident as has been said for us to lose this privilege forever.

[06AngusSG]

The point to bring attention to it is to not be afraid of the other side and do what's right for everyone. Like or hate him if, our current President has taught us anything yet it would be not to let fear or political norms to control what you do.

The "exclusive" club of FA NFA firearms only exists due to political trickery to get the Hughes amendment passed and in turn freezing the amount of "legal" machine guns and hoping that over time they will extinct themselves. And as implied in this thread, money to spend on these firearms does not a good guy make.

Before 1986, FA firearms were not commonplace but were also not so exuberantly expensive so as an average guy couldn't afford them. There were no problems to speak of before that and no one can say there would be problems with them had it not been passed. No one can say there would be any more of an epidemic if it was repealed.

Granted I would feel bad that anyone's investment in these items might devalue in repeal of Hughes or NFA entirely, it's a small price to pay for REAL freedom which isn't free or easy.

Edited February 24, 2017 by 06AngusSG

[brucea4]

The point to bring attention to it is to not be afraid of the other side and do what's right for everyone. Like or hate him if, our current President has taught us anything yet it would be not to let fear or political norms to control what you do.

The "exclusive" club of FA NFA firearms only exists due to political trickery to get the Hughes amendment passed and in turn freezing the amount of "legal" machine guns and hoping that over time they will extinct themselves. And as implied in this thread, money to spend on these firearms does not a good guy make.

Before 1986, FA firearms were not commonplace but were also not so exuberantly expensive so as an average guy couldn't afford them. There were no problems to speak of before that and no one can say there would be problems with them had it not been passed. No one can say there would be any more of an epidemic if it was repealed.

Granted I would feel bad that anyone's investment in these items might devalue in repeal of Hughes or NFA entirely, it's a small price to pay for REAL freedom which isn't free or easy.

 

I concur......

[huggytree]

what you want will get you more freedom---temporarily...... but long term will lead to the complete removal of all FAs.....i see no upside.....and there is no way pres trump will sign to let machine guns be legally built again....its all a dream....

 

since 1986 we have been 1 mass killing away with a legal machine gun from losing all our machine guns....deny that fact?

 

why would you want more out there and at lower prices? to bring a mass shooting with a legal machine gun? because thats what will happen......amazing it hasnt happened already

 

the higher prices bring more responsible people who own them.....make them $250 again and see what happens

 

this whole subject is silly to discuss its not going to happen

 

focus on suppressors....i do think in my lifetime that will happen.......there is no down side to that issue....it helps make out FA transfers down to 30 days and suppressors become integrated into new gun designs....and i dont think you'd have 99.9999% of people against it either....

Edited February 24, 2017 by huggytree

[wwiifirearms]

I'd feel a lot more comfortable with the NFA going away via a Supreme Court ruling, than legislation.

Remember the Hughes Ammendment was part of a "pro gun" law. In congress you will give up something to get something.

As a wise man once said, no person's life, liberty, or property is safe when congress is in session.

[06AngusSG]

what you want will get you more freedom---temporarily...... but long term will lead to the complete removal of all FAs.....i see no upside.....and there is no way pres trump will sign to let machine guns be legally built again....its all a dream....

 

since 1986 we have been 1 mass killing away with a legal machine gun from losing all our machine guns....deny that fact?

 

why would you want more out there and at lower prices? to bring a mass shooting with a legal machine gun? because thats what will happen......amazing it hasnt happened already

 

the higher prices bring more responsible people who own them.....make them $250 again and see what happens

 

this whole subject is silly to discuss its not going to happen

 

focus on suppressors....i do think in my lifetime that will happen.......there is no down side to that issue....it helps make out FA transfers down to 30 days and suppressors become integrated into new gun designs....and i dont think you'd have 99.9999% of people against it either....

This will be my last post on this because as I agree that it is silly to discuss, it's not for the same reason. This debate would go on forever until all parties involved are blue in the face. I just couldn't sit and read anymore without at least saying something.

 

While I think that, as far as FA's are concerned, the NFA will never be repealed in full. I would like to see SBR's and suppressors out of it. I DO think that the '86 Hughes amendment was, and is, a huge mistake and in research was "passed" on a lie and has a slim chance of going away. I refuse to go on the any kind of notion of; since it's there let it be. I think keeping FA's in the NFA is a just fine compromise to make sure it's "good guys" that have them. But the Hughes is was and always will be a mistake and is preventing soon future generations from enjoying the same as we do now.

 

I do deny that FA's are one shooting away from oblivion since 1986... Just look to the the 1997 North Hollywood shootout for case in point. Chinese AK-variant FA's. Although body count wasn't sky high, it brought FA's straight into the limelight and nothing happened. If guns were so easily gotten rid of, the constant parade of AR-15 variants as evil weapons of destruction by the anti's would have gotten rid of SA rifles a long time ago.

 

The same what if? discussion being had in this thread is the same what if? that is used by anti's and the same what if? used to get the 1994 AWB passed. Which consequently was allowed to sunset because during the 10 years of it's jurisdiction the anti's argument was totally refuted in that the what if? was answered and it made no difference in so called "Assault weapon" crime. So... what if the prices lowered? What if more people have them? What if someone snaps? This simply plays right into B. Franklins quote "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 

FA's were widely available to be purchased at non-insane prices up to and even after the 1986 FOPA. I saw a member here post that in 1996 he bought his Colt Thompson for only $5000. What was a WH Thompson at that time? Affordable... and making them $20k, or whatever they are fetching, does not make them less dangerous now.

 

The thing is.... if people want to get a hold of an FA and go postal they will. Just ask France and again see: 1997 N. Hollywood. Gangs already have them and use them here as well. But as stated by many here and many elsewhere an SA can be just as deadly as an FA/select fire when it comes to kill count in battle. FA is better for covering fire. So it is irrational to have any fear of more FA's being at more affordable prices especially if they stay in the purview of the NFA (which I don't take issue with) and only the Hughes is repealed.

 

Thanks for the lively debate!!

 

Jon

[83Baron]

Like you said this debate could go on forever, and not like it matters because this would be the last thing on a political agenda. But the point remains with mental health a much more significant and widespread issue today compared to 30 years ago, why take the risk that more crime could take place with FA compared to SA. I also disagree that liberty is being given up, you can own a FA if you pay the price, and just like you can't own a modern M4 you can't own an F16 or F15 either but you can own a cobra gunship, sabre fighter, etc. If all of a sudden we couldn't own a Thompson, etc. then liberties are being infringed but you have a much better chance of that happening if you overturn Hughes then keeping things the way they are. And also, a FA would be much more devastating into a crowd then an AR would be in the same amount of time. Keep the pressure on better mental health, better background checks and leave the AR style SA available but keep the FA out of the limelight and we are all better off. Just my opinion.

[lightguy]

Well it made over the amount needed, getting ready to be disappointed

 

Let's be blunt.

So what can we as investors do to kill it ?

Machine Guns are not only a neat toy but a substantial monetary investment.

[huggytree]

to one of the above posts----the AK full auto shoot out 1997 Hollywood was not with registered machine guns.....they were illegally made into machine guns....

 

if a nut takes a registered machine gun to a school yard and kills 20 kids the NFA is over....

 

anything that lets the 60+% of the population know they even exist legally is a nail in the coffin

 

as long as its secret to most of the population the NFA is safe

[huggytree]

 

Well it made over the amount needed, getting ready to be disappointed

 

Let's be blunt.

So what can we as investors do to kill it ?

Machine Guns are not only a neat toy but a substantial monetary investment.

it never had a chance and had no purpose other than to cause some to dream

[HB of CJ]

Excellent topic and thank you. So if NFA stuff is considered by some, (including me) to be more of an investment than a US Constitutional abstract, are there other collectibles we might or should be considering right now?

 

The bottom line is what will happen will happen. Which in this case means that new NFA stuff will never be made legal. As a kid I collected stamps, baseball cards and coins. Lots of us did. Should we be considering it today?

 

Maybe we already are. Respectfully.