Machine Gun Mike

[Robert Henley]

Great and timely (for me) video by Mike:

 

 

Mike, I used your Part II video to field strip and clean my C&R Fazakerley WWII STEN MK II that I just received after a one day short of nine months wait. PM me and we can compare serial numbers to see how far our guns are apart. I may also have a few questions for you.

 

Thanks,

 

Robert

[hntrdarren]

Congrats on your C & R Sten.

[m3bobby]

Can I play that game? Ive got a few Faz Mk2s

[Robert Henley]

See if this video of me at the range this morning with the STEN works OK:

 

https://youtu.be/OtjNFQW-GoE

 

If not, let me know.

 

The gun ran flawlessly. Great gun!

 

Robert

[Robert Henley]

I've got copies of some of the prior registrations, and it was pointed out to me that the gun was owned at one time by Kent Lomont:

 

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/mscg/kent-lomont-passes-on-at-the-age-of-66-t5962.html

 

I didn't know Mr. Lomont, but perhaps there are others on the Board who knew him? Would be interesting to hear any stories, particularly related to STENs.

 

Robert

[Robert Henley]

One of my questions about STENs:

 

I bought eight 32 round magazines (the gun came with one Broad Arrow marked magazine), and four of the eight I bought slipped right in the mag well just like the one that came with the gun.

 

However, the other four magazines were a tight fit. I didn't force them in, so my question is is there a trick to fitting some of the magazines into the mag well (like steel wool or something where they go into the mag well?). My eight magazines I bought all looked the same except four had blued followers and four had silver colored followers. The four that would not slip in easily were two of each, so the color of the followers was not a factor. All the magazines look exactly alike except the one that came with the gun in which the bluing is well worn.

 

All five magazines I used worked flawlessly.

 

Robert

[DARIVS]

One of my questions about STENs:

 

I bought eight 32 round magazines (the gun came with one Broad Arrow marked magazine), and four of the eight I bought slipped right in the mag well just like the one that came with the gun.

 

However, the other four magazines were a tight fit. I didn't force them in, so my question is is there a trick to fitting some of the magazines into the mag well (like steel wool or something where they go into the mag well?). My eight magazines I bought all looked the same except four had blued followers and four had silver colored followers. The four that would not slip in easily were two of each, so the color of the followers was not a factor. All the magazines look exactly alike except the one that came with the gun in which the bluing is well worn.

 

All five magazines I used worked flawlessly.

 

Robert

 

Whatever modifications you do to the sten or the mags will probably reduce their collector value. Sounds like your sten is on the small end of the tolerance spectrum for magwell size. I originally bought 25 mags with the sten I used to own, and 16 of them fit and functioned without fail. My advice is to simply buy more mags if you do not have enough. Sell the non-fitting mags to some fellow who has a sten that they fit into. The tolerances on sten magwells and mags wandered, which is no surprise considering how many of them were pumped out of the factories. Non-fitting original magazines sometimes occur with the MP-40 as well. I have one that it so far out of tolerance, it probably won't fit any MP-40. It sits on the shelf, and it's floor plate and spring are considered spare parts.

Edited December 2, 2019 by DARIVS

[huggytree]

ive got a lanchester with the same issue...since the mag well is cast id say it has more to do with the mags vs mag well. i think some mags are just oversized....i own a beretta 38/44 with the same issue...some mags slip in like butter, some you have to pound in....i just sell the bigger ones and move on..Your sten is a $6 gun...no one ever cared if the mag well was tight...or the .10 cent mag was oversized!...

[Robert Henley]

Another question:

 

I have to tap with a rubber mallet the top of the stock near the receiver to get the stock off. I was thinking about maybe bending the tab where the stock locks into the receiver to loosen it up slightly (or maybe try another stock?).

 

My question is are the stocks like the magazines, I.e., does the fit vary due to tolerances? Anyone else have this issue? It's a minor issue but it would be nice just to press the button and have the stock slide off for storage and transportation purposes.

 

Thanks,

 

Robert

[DZelenka]

 

One of my questions about STENs:

 

I bought eight 32 round magazines (the gun came with one Broad Arrow marked magazine), and four of the eight I bought slipped right in the mag well just like the one that came with the gun.

 

However, the other four magazines were a tight fit. I didn't force them in, so my question is is there a trick to fitting some of the magazines into the mag well (like steel wool or something where they go into the mag well?). My eight magazines I bought all looked the same except four had blued followers and four had silver colored followers. The four that would not slip in easily were two of each, so the color of the followers was not a factor. All the magazines look exactly alike except the one that came with the gun in which the bluing is well worn.

 

All five magazines I used worked flawlessly.

 

Robert

 

Whatever modifications you do to the sten or the mags will probably reduce their collector value. Sounds like your sten is on the small end of the tolerance spectrum for magwell size. I originally bought 25 mags with the sten I used to own, and 16 of them fit and functioned without fail. My advice is to simply buy more mags if you do not have enough. Sell the non-fitting mags to some fellow who has a sten that they fit into. The tolerances on sten magwells and mags wandered, which is no surprise considering how many of them were pumped out of the factories. Non-fitting original magazines sometimes occur with the MP-40 as well. I have one that it so far out of tolerance, it probably won't fit any MP-40. It sits on the shelf, and it's floor plate and spring are considered spare parts.

What is the manufacturer of the magazine that doesn't fit any MP-40? bte?

[skoda]

Another question:

 

I have to tap with a rubber mallet the top of the stock near the receiver to get the stock off. I was thinking about maybe bending the tab where the stock locks into the receiver to loosen it up slightly (or maybe try another stock?).

 

My question is are the stocks like the magazines, I.e., does the fit vary due to tolerances? Anyone else have this issue? It's a minor issue but it would be nice just to press the button and have the stock slide off for storage and transportation purposes.

 

Thanks,

 

Robert

I had the same problem. I measured several different stocks on the plate that slips into the receiver and they varied quite a bit. You could either file it down or try some other stocks.

[Robert Henley]

For the fun of it, I looked at the markings on my STEN magazines which are as follows:

 

The five that fit my mag well:

 

1. M634 with Broad Arrow (came with gun)

2. M/111

3. E&CO

4. M/13

5. M/13

 

The four that were too tight:

 

6. E&CO (this one actually seemed like it would go in, and I noticed the #3 one above was slightly scuffed up where it goes in the mag well so I think this one will work with minor scuffing)

7. N93

8. N93

9. N93

 

I'd like to get some more Broad Arrow marked ones if anyone has any in good condition.

 

Anyone know the manufacturers from the above codes? I got my Dial Caliper out, and there was like a .07 larger difference in the dimensions where the magazine goes in the mag well for the N93 stamped magazines.

 

All the magazines I have are in very good to excellent condition.

 

Any thoughts about these codes and findings?

 

Robert

 

P.S., I started to slowly work #6 thru #9 in and out of the mag well, and they started to move a little more freely. I also used a clean oily cloth to oil all the magazines before putting them away, and noticed the cloth was not completely clean so even though they look clean they may need some more cleaning to remove any residue that might be a factor.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Robert Henley

[m3bobby]

N93 and S63 is Kork-n-Seal, later bought out by a US based business.

E&CO or M78 is Elkington & Co

M13 is the famous Austin Motors of car fame

M111 is Frank Hawker, they made triggers and platforms so maybe not complete mags.

M634 is Mettoy. Mettoy (metal toy) was formed by 2 Jewish Germans who escaped from Hitler pre war. The company later created Corgi cars who were famous die cast toy car makers in the UK.

[michaelkih]

Great and timely (for me) video by Mike:

 

 

Mike, I used your Part II video to field strip and clean my C&R Fazakerley WWII STEN MK II that I just received after a one day short of nine months wait. PM me and we can compare serial numbers to see how far our guns are apart. I may also have a few questions for you.

 

Thanks,

 

Robert

 

Glad my video could be of help to you! Feel free to ask my any questions.

[m3bobby]

Mike, I dont know if anyone has said this before, but when you remove the barrel, pull the mag well latch pin out and rotate the magwell down a little. This will disengage the ratchet pawl from the barrel nut. The teeth on the barrel nut are cut with a flat side and a slope side. The flat side locks the nut and the slope is to allow the pawl to ride over when tightening. Undoing the nut with the pawl engaged with chip the teeth and ware them out resulting in a loose barrel nut. Replacements are cheap but finding a matching finish is unlikely.

 

Nice vid and some nice weather!

[michaelkih]

Mike, I dont know if anyone has said this before, but when you remove the barrel, pull the mag well latch pin out and rotate the magwell down a little. This will disengage the ratchet pawl from the barrel nut. The teeth on the barrel nut are cut with a flat side and a slope side. The flat side locks the nut and the slope is to allow the pawl to ride over when tightening. Undoing the nut with the pawl engaged with chip the teeth and ware them out resulting in a loose barrel nut. Replacements are cheap but finding a matching finish is unlikely.

 

Nice vid and some nice weather!

I've never been told that. Thank you.

[m3bobby]

No problem Mike, I didnt want to teach you to suck eggs as you may have known but I equally didnt want to not say anything in case anyone else didnt know.

 

I dont know if that was ever a standard practice when in service but these days its better to be mechanically sympathetic with these old bits of kit.

 

Another trick Ive heard about is to put a dummy round in the mag first so that the bolt finishes firing on the dummy. That way the block doesnt clatter into the barrel support/bushing/trunnion after the last round. Peter Laidler eludes to this issue in his book, he states that when the bushing became loose, an old barrel should be placed in the bushing and the bushing forced back into position by tapping the old barrel backwards with a hammer. Then the bushing is to be welded into the case. As far as I can ascertain, the only way the bushing can become loose is by the block closing on an empty barrel, an original STEN fires using API and the block should never contact the bushing under normal conditions.

[Robert Henley]

No problem Mike, I didnt want to teach you to suck eggs as you may have known but I equally didnt want to not say anything in case anyone else didnt know.

 

I dont know if that was ever a standard practice when in service but these days its better to be mechanically sympathetic with these old bits of kit.

 

Another trick Ive heard about is to put a dummy round in the mag first so that the bolt finishes firing on the dummy. That way the block doesnt clatter into the barrel support/bushing/trunnion after the last round. Peter Laidler eludes to this issue in his book, he states that when the bushing became loose, an old barrel should be placed in the bushing and the bushing forced back into position by tapping the old barrel backwards with a hammer. Then the bushing is to be welded into the case. As far as I can ascertain, the only way the bushing can become loose is by the block closing on an empty barrel, an original STEN fires using API and the block should never contact the bushing under normal conditions.

 

Good information. I wondered about the barrel and ratchet mechanism and take-down.

 

As I recall, Frank I. also mentions in his STEN book about using a dummy round in the first so the bolt doesn't fall on empty chamber. I noticed if I switched to single fire toward the end of the magazine that the bolt stayed open on the last shot (I could see into the chamber and know when the last cartridge was shot so as not to pull the trigger again on an empty magazine).

 

Robert

Edited December 25, 2019 by Robert Henley

[m3bobby]

On the old Sterlings this led to cracked breech blocks, I remember back in 1988 experiencing one crack on me. It makes a different noise when a cracked bolt closes on an empty barrel.

[DARIVS]

 

 

One of my questions about STENs:

 

I bought eight 32 round magazines (the gun came with one Broad Arrow marked magazine), and four of the eight I bought slipped right in the mag well just like the one that came with the gun.

 

However, the other four magazines were a tight fit. I didn't force them in, so my question is is there a trick to fitting some of the magazines into the mag well (like steel wool or something where they go into the mag well?). My eight magazines I bought all looked the same except four had blued followers and four had silver colored followers. The four that would not slip in easily were two of each, so the color of the followers was not a factor. All the magazines look exactly alike except the one that came with the gun in which the bluing is well worn.

 

All five magazines I used worked flawlessly.

 

Robert

 

Whatever modifications you do to the sten or the mags will probably reduce their collector value. Sounds like your sten is on the small end of the tolerance spectrum for magwell size. I originally bought 25 mags with the sten I used to own, and 16 of them fit and functioned without fail. My advice is to simply buy more mags if you do not have enough. Sell the non-fitting mags to some fellow who has a sten that they fit into. The tolerances on sten magwells and mags wandered, which is no surprise considering how many of them were pumped out of the factories. Non-fitting original magazines sometimes occur with the MP-40 as well. I have one that it so far out of tolerance, it probably won't fit any MP-40. It sits on the shelf, and it's floor plate and spring are considered spare parts.

What is the manufacturer of the magazine that doesn't fit any MP-40? bte?

I believe if was kur. It's buried in a box somewhere. Did a quick search but haven't found it yet.

[Robert Henley]

 

Another question:

 

I have to tap with a rubber mallet the top of the stock near the receiver to get the stock off. I was thinking about maybe bending the tab where the stock locks into the receiver to loosen it up slightly (or maybe try another stock?).

 

My question is are the stocks like the magazines, I.e., does the fit vary due to tolerances? Anyone else have this issue? It's a minor issue but it would be nice just to press the button and have the stock slide off for storage and transportation purposes.

 

Thanks,

 

Robert

I had the same problem. I measured several different stocks on the plate that slips into the receiver and they varied quite a bit. You could either file it down or try some other stocks.

 

 

I bought this MK V wooden stock with Broad Arrow marking and to my delight it appears to slide on and lock perfectly on my MK II:

 

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/851060991

 

It's also a very nice looking stock (after cleaning up with Ballistol).

 

Robert

Edited January 16, 2020 by Robert Henley