1928 AC Markings

[SAW23015]

I purchased a 1928 AC from Sandman1957 on this board in May of 2016. It's a great gun and a very good shooter.

 

Reviewing the paperwork I received from ATF as a result of my FOIA request I noticed on a Form 3 approved on 20 Nov 1973 in section 6.h. (Other marks of identification on the firearm) it states that A.P.D. is marked on the left side of the receiver. It is not there now and is not indicated on any subsequent forms and there have been several transfers after 20 Nov 1973. I would like to know if anyone on this board owns or has seen a TSMG with APD marked on the receiver. Most AC guns went to police departments so APD may stand for Atlanta Police Department or some other police department whose name begins with A. There are no noticeable grind marks on the receiver other than where the US before the serial # was removed and the 1 was replaced with a C at the end of the serial number making it an AC.

[TD.]

I know of at least one 1928AC with APD 16 marked on the left side of the receiver. I also know of a few Colt's with the APD markings on the left side of the receiver.

 

 

The most important form in your FOIA packet is the earliest dated form, hopefully, a Form 5 in the 1940's. What is the earliest form in the packet?

[SAW23015]

TD. Thanks for the response. After going back and looking at the Form 3 it actually says APD 17. So the one you saw could have come from the same place as mine. Seems to indicate a Police Department getting rid of multiple Thompsons...

[SAW23015]

TD. The earliest form in my packet is a Form 5 dated 8 Aug 1973.

[Sandman1957]

Tom, The picture you posted also has a 16 struck into the lower receiver. The one I sold Andy does not have any of those markings now. Does anyone know if the A.P.D. is Atlanta PD or not? The next several transfers on the SN were all on Form 3s. Any insight on what Dealer may have been the one who initially purchased this gun? I'll look to see if I can find any of the old photos I posted. I sold it here on the forum to Andy. It was a great shooter. One of the smoothest shooting ones I've had. Recon Bob barreled it for me, and he even commented how smoothly it shot.

Sandman1957

[Sandman1957]

Here is the link to when I posted the Auto Ordnance 1928AC for sale. I purchased this Thompson from David Spiwak in 2013. The Form 4 from Spiwak to me was started 03 April 2013 and approved Feb 11 2014. I sold it to SAW23015 10 Jan of 2016, approved on 27 May 2016 . It did not have any A.P.D. markings on it when I had it. It did have some light markings on the bluing which I could not figure out at the time. Looks like they could have been where someone buffed off the PD markings and re blued it. If anyone used to own this gun would love to hear from it, and when you had it. Andy is trying to fill in the blanks on the history of the Thompson. Since most of the info is redacted, if you owned the gun, please chime in and if you have photos of it then, post them if you can.

Cheers, Sandman1957

 

Auto Ordnance 1928AC with Former Markings of A.P.D. #17 on Left side of the receiver. SN A.0. 152547x

 

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18663&hl=%2Bfor+%2Bsale

Edited February 28, 2020 by Sandman1957

[TD.]

SAW23015 & Sandman1957,

Attached is another picture of APD 16. It was offered for sale on subguns.com in 2015. I saved the pictures because of the APD markings.

 

 

The Freedom of Information Act should have located an old IRS Form 5, Application for Exemption from Payment of Transfer Tax on Firearms Under Chapter 25, Subchapter B, Internal Revenue Code, dated in the early to mid 1940's for A.O. 152547x. There is little doubt your 1928AC Thompson gun was manufactured and sold by Auto-Ordnance Corporation (AOC), later to become Maguire Industries, Inc., during this time frame. If me, I would contact ATF and request another search or appeal the results of the search because you know many other 1928AC Thompsons were properly registered during this time frame by AOC or Maguire Industries, as per the legal requirements after July 1934.

 

You could also ask for a copy of the Weapon History Report including the History Detail, from the ATF computer system. This should show the date A.O. 152547x was "born" on the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR), commonly known as the NFA Registry. If this request was denied, I would file another FOIA specially requesting this information. Note: some information on this computer record will be redacted but the applicable Form numbers and dates should be released.

 

Please be advised it is also possible the IRS or ATF simply lost or misfiled all the applicable forms and the information was never properly entered into the ATF computer system.

 

All that said, I do believe your A.O. 152547x is most likely an Atlanta Police Department Thompson gun based on the information in the Form 3 you referenced earlier and the date of the police auction where some/all of the Atlanta Police Department Thompson guns were sold.

 

 

Notice the end of the bidding or auction for the machine guns is on July 24, 1973. Compare that to the first Form 5 in your FOIA packet dated, August 8, 1973. Coincidence? I don't think so. Obviously, the IRS had something in their files in 1973 that allowed for these Thompson guns to be transferred. Contact me via PM if you would like to discuss further.

[Sandman1957]

Tom, Great info! Thanks, I know Andy will appreciate it. I certainly do. Maybe others who had this gun in the past will chime in.

Cheers

Steve

[SAW23015]

Thanks for the info Tom I really appreciate it. I think you are correct that my gun was sold at the auction described in the information you provided. Also, thank you Steve for your help. It's always interesting finding out the history of any of the surviving Thompsons. I am amazed at the amount history concerning Thompsons that can be found in books and from people like you two guys. Hopefully there is more out there that I will learn.

 

Thanks much...