Purchased A Mac 10/9 & Cac Bowers Can This Weekend

[DC Chris]

All-

 

Picked up a NIB MAC 10/9 (Registered in both 9mm & 45ACP) with new buffer - $2700

New Practical Solutions Folding Stock - $130

New Bowers CAC Can $199

And a few extra new mags $20/ea.

 

I made the deal with Sam at Practical Solutions. He seems like a really good guy and we are both in the Peoples Republic of Maryland, so no form 3. Ahhh the fun of the ATF transfer process again....

 

So, any MAC shooters out there? Any upgrades or things I should consider doing?

 

Any suggestions on the following are appreciated:

 

1) Nomex cover for the can - any idea on vendors?

2) Looking for a nice aluminum type case that would hold the gun and accessories

3) I noticed that Cobray had the manuals for sale, so I am looking at picking one up.

4) Is it worth it to buy an upper to convert to .45 ACP? I understand it might also require the grip to be changed out because of the bigger cartridges and mags. I was looking for something that was drop in and swappable, but don't know if it exists.

5) Any ideas on mags? I hate the "Zytel" (re, plastic) mags and would love to have metal mags - starting with 9mm.

6) What should the spare parts box contain? I usually shoot Winchester or Remington virgin brass.

7) I also noticed there are quite a few UZI type upgrades, besides the look of the gun, I don't know if this is money well spent.

 

So, I am new to the MAC world, but cannot wait to get that thing on the range.

 

Thanks for any input-

 

Chris.

[Sgt. Fox]

Congratulations! MAC's are a lot of fun. My only NFA toy is a MAC10 with a Gemtech can.

 

as for question #4, mine is registered for both calibers and I have both uppers. I almost never shoot the .45. The 9mm is so much more economical and fun to shoot. The .45 packs too much of a puch for me with that wire stock. It leaves a huge imprint in my shoulder. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif There are drop-in mag well adapters that you can use. They're kind of tough to find though. Basically it's a little metal guide you drop in before inserting the 9mm upper to allow for the 9mm magazines to fit in the .45 mag well. Works flawlessly. They also make a .22 upper if you really want to save some cash on your ammo.

 

 

[First Sergeant]

Chris,

 

We seem to have similar tastes, Thompsons and Macs. You need a Reising next. I have a PS Mac 10 in .45acp that runs flawlessly no matter what type or brand of ammo I feed it. About a year ago I bought all the parts for a 9mm conversion and it too functions flawlessly. Cheaper than .45 too !! I have a subcal .22 conversion that even with tweeking from the factory I can't get to run worth a darn. Too bad, it would be more fun than I could imagine and talk about cheap !!

Not sure if there is a drop in adaptor to go from 9mm to 45 but the other way is a breeze.

I agree with SGT, Macs are fun shooters but the factory stock has alot to be desired. Looks like you've solved that problem already. I use an adaptor to use a collapsible AR15/M16 type stock, works great. Enjoy....good luck on the transfer I'm at 95 days on my last one and still waiting.

 

Chuck

[Bruce V 21/28]

Chris,

 

You will love your MAC-10. I have a P/S MAC-10 9mm, the thing runs great.

 

Sgt Fox and First Sgt. Tell me more about your 22 conversion kit, I'd like to try one. Are there any mags that will work that are over 30 rounds?

 

Bruce

[Sgt. Fox]

I don't own one myself, but they sell them here:

http://subcal.com/M10.html

[Bruce V 21/28]

Thanks Sgt. Fox

 

Bruce

[DC Chris]

Bruce, Chuck, Sgt Fox-

 

Thanks for all the great info guys. I sent the paperwork off to the MSP this week for CLEO signoff (takes 3-4 weeks, but they do sign) and got the magazines sent to PA to get around the Maryland High Compacity law (legal to possess, not legal to buy over the counter in MD or ship to your house in MD... go figure).

 

I think this is why I purchased the MAC: flexibility. There are tons of parts and so many things to customize. I am kicking around the idea of a .22 conversion too and really appreciate the link.

 

Anyone use metal magazines? Those damn Zytel things give me the creeps and it is hard to get magazines over 20 rounds in this communist state I am stuck in. If you all use Zytel mags, any word on those metal feed lips they sell? Is it worth it?

 

My birthday is coming up and I am making my list of MAC goodies for people to get.... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/smile.gif

 

Chris.

 

PS - Anyone use a Bowers or Costal can? Does the can stay on good and tight when firing or does it work loose? Any info on how to properly maintain it? I don't remember seeing any instructions with the can, but I know it can be disassembled for cleaning.

 

[Bill in VA]

I have an older Coastal can for my M11/Nine and sent it off several yaers ago to Silent Delivery Systems for an upgrade. They did a great job and replaced teh fender washer internals with a series of asymetrical baffles...much quieter. (FWIW, SDS is no longer in business.) Even with the older baffles though, the can worked well enough. I hung it on the end of my AR15 once, and even as a 9mm can, it still quieted the .223 enough to shoot without ear muffs. The one big problem with MAC cans is the threads...they're quite large and coarse and thus the cans have a tendancy to unscrew. I solved this problem by buying some rubber garden hose washers. The ID fits perfectly over the M11's 9mm bbl, and they're nice and flat so they won't throw the alignment off. I've yet to have my can unscrew from my M11 or have a baffle strike.

[First Sergeant]

Bruce,

 

I have a Subcal unit for my Mac which takes standard high-cap Ruger 10/22 type mags. They recomend and supply Ram-Line's. It's a bit awkward with the mag protruding out the left ala Sten and Sterlings but the few times I've had it work it was impressive.

 

I've had it back to Subcal 3 times now (once even switching uppers)and it still won't function properly. I've tried many differant brands of ammo, none are acceptable. It does seem that it prefers the solid 40 grain bullet though. Bill at Subcal has always been helpful but I just got burned out trying to get it to work. Maybe I'm due to send it back for another "upgrade." If anyone has any suggestions other than that let me know. Thanks

 

Chuck

[Bruce V 21/28]

Thanks again Chuck. Please let us know if upgrades help.

 

I would love to find one that would work and use an AM-180 type of magazine.

 

Bruce

[Garrett]

A few comments:

 

The grip/magwell is bigger on a .45 than on a 9mm. That is why you can use an insert to switch from .45 to 9mm but not the other way. To shoot .45, you would have to cut off the grip/magwell and weld on a .45 magwell.

 

My gun is a .45 and I have a couple of different mag inserts to use with 9mm mags. The first is a Sten magwell from Tactical Innovations. I had to ship the gun off to have the insert fit to the gun. It uses cheap Sten mags, but they have to have a tab welded to the back of them in order to hit the mag catch. I have a couple of mags that work great, and several that won't run for anything. My other magwell is (I believe) from Cobray. It was designed to use the more expensive 2-position Walther mags. But I find that it works fine with the single-position zytel mags. This is what I use exclusively in my gun when shooting 9mm. I have installed metal feedlips on all of my mags and they work flawlessly. They are much easier to load than the Sten mags, and (unlike the Stens) require no tweaking once the metal feedlips are on. Go to max-11.com for the feedlips. I highly recommend them.

 

I have bought a few of the metal South African mags from CDNN for my M11. I believe that with a little filing on the mag catch area, I could get them to lock up properly in the MAC10. That might be worth you looking into. I believe at the moment they are only around $10 ea.

 

A good solid stock makes the gun so much more shootable. After being unable to find an original RPB wood stock, I ended up building a reproduction. It's rock solid and very comfortable.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/GarrettJ/ISSMC%202005/DSC03188.jpg

 

Suppressors: get a good nomex cover and hold on tight. There are a few other tricks that you can do but I no longer trust them. you can...

1. put a rubber washer over the OD of the barrel so it fits between the rear of the can and the front of the upper receiver. This works well for one or two mags. But be sure to check that the can is tight every time you put a new mag in.

2. wrap teflon plumbers tape around the barrel threads. This will make the can fit much tighter and less likely to loosen.

3. tighten with a strap wrench.

 

Here's the problem: I was shooting my MAC10 at a subgun match a couple of years ago. I had a cheap nomex cover that slid over the front of the can. (I think you can still get these from RPB or Et Cetra. I think they've been in inventory since the late '70s). This cover was very slick on the smooth can surface. Enough so that I could not keep it from unscrewing. Also, the cover poked out at the seam. This kept getting up in front of my front sight making it difficult to shoot. I finally pulled the cover and went with all three of the other "solutions" that I have listed above. They were good for about 100 rounds (or about half way through the stage for me). After that, the can would heat up and melt the teflon tape. The constant full-auto vibrations were enough to break the can loose in spite of the rubber washer and the strap wrench tightening. When this happened, I started getting baffle strikes like this:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/GarrettJ/DSC02034.jpg

 

Not a happy thing. I have since started using a lace up nomex/leather cover from http://beepspouches.com/ . All I can say is that it's well worth the money. It laces on tight so that the can won't slip under the cover. You have a good gripping surface. I haven't had a baffle strike since I put this cover on.

 

FWIW, I'm waiting for the .22 unit that Richard Lage at max-11.com is putting out. I believe the unit is ready for production and he's just waiting for a blessing from ATF.

 

Have fun with your new toy.

[First Sergeant]

Update/Upgrade:

 

Well I finally got off my butt and sent the .22 conversion back to Subcal. As always, Bill was helpful and willing to "see what it was doing." Today, approx. 10 days (could have been less) after returning it, the kit arrived home. I sent three mags with the kit when I returned it to check for function and reliablitly. I had requested that if the gun ran fine with the new "recoil enhancer" they are selling; set me up with one. Lo and behold inside the box was the enhancer.

It's 6" long, threads on the conversion unit's barrel and it's rifled ! I've read it helps overall reliability. It too had the standard 1/2" x 28 tpi threads on the end although rather ugly, looked well made. Of course I had to try it, but no time to go to the range. Off to the garage and a few phonebooks later I was ready. Only loading 7-8 rds per mag (hey, I was in my garage and all) the gun functioned flawlessly. I will try to do a more in depth session tomorrow on a range but so far so good.

 

Additionally, I observed a milled out section on the barrel where the extractor seats itself around the rim of the 22. Seems this area was milled deeper to give it more of a grip on the case.

 

Chuck

[First Sergeant]

More disapointment !! Ran like a champ for 150 rds or so, then it just quit feeding. Pulled quite a bit of lead shavings from the chamber, cleaned it and still wouldn't feed. Tried several mags that had worked fine but still no go. I've had a suggestion it was a bad throat to the chamber or a sharp area near the relief they cut for the extractor; which makes sense. Any other ideas?

 

Chuck