Documented Colt Prison 21ac For Sale

[October1971]

Thank you, Frank for this forum in which Thompson enthusiasts can share information with one another. It is a superb vehicle for all of us to continue to learn as we progress along the "Thompson road of history."

 

And thanks for authorizing my posting Thompson guns for sale.

 

The subject gun for sale now is one of the (11) Colts from the New Jersey State Prison system, as documented in Gordon Herigstad's superb reference works.

 

For those on the board who do not have access to Gordon's research, I will insert the letter from Correction Captain, Charles W. Trautman, written on 5-5-81 as follows:

 

"Please be advised that the Thompson machine guns listed above were used in various inmate disturbances that occurred at Trenton State Prison and Rahway State Prison.

 

Trenton Sate Prison, 1946, after an inmate with a smuggled gun killed an officer in 2-wing.

 

Trenton State Prison, 1951 and 1952, used during the riots tht occurred in 5-wing and 7-wing.

 

Trenton State Prison, April 10, 1954, Officer Alexander H. Abbot shot and killed Vaszorich J. Lewis from the laundry roof, after his escape from the death house where was waiting execution.

 

Trenton State Prison, January 1976, Captain G. Simmons carried one during an escape attempt from 7-wing by the Black Liberation Army. Two officers were shot and wounded. Inmate, John Clark, was killed.

 

Rahway State Prison, 1961, brought into Rahway but not used during the riot New Year's Day.

 

Rahway State Prison, 1971, Thanksgiving Day riot brought in and used to blow off a lock. Not used during any other phase of this riot.

 

Very truly yours,

 

Charles W. Trautman

Correction Captain"

 

The subject gun has stampings in all three pieces of wood: "NJSP - 3" For the "rack number" 3 of New Jersey State Prison.

 

It is all original throughout and has never been dewatted, refinished, or altered.

 

The finish is starting to turn and it has the usual dings in the wood and some metal blemishes consistant with an 85 year old Tommy gun used in numerous prison breaks, riots, and other prison related events. If it could only talk...

 

Fortunately, we at least have the accounting of the Correction Captain's letter to lend a little knowledge as to the colorful past this group of prison Colts must have had.

 

Gun comes with one XX-mag and I will try to post some photo links herein. (I believe I have mastered that function of photo posting after some false starts!)

 

I can provide references.

Confidentiality maintained.

Satisfaction guaranteed.

 

Except for most of the finish being gone from the compensator, I'd have to rate this gun overall at 75-80%. I remember Roger Cox telling me one time that he didn't like to use "percent finish" when rating TSMGs because it just didn't seem to give the full story. He liked to use VG, Excellent, etc.

 

In all the Colts that have run through my hands, found many 90-95% plus guns, except they might have had awful scratch marks around the pivot plate area where some law enforcement armorer thought he knew how to disassemble the gun.

 

But you soon learn to get the "feel" for a gun that has just been used a lot, but not abused. I feel the New Jersey Prison gun is in that category. No bad scratches in the pivot plate area. Pretty even coverage of blue, but, as stated, starting to turn now.

 

I can picture guards in the tower sitting at their table and having coffee while holding the compensator/muzzle area with their sweaty palms, thus no finish on the compensator.

 

Oh yes, there IS the issue of the small carving on the left side of the butt stock that says: "Mother" (I guess between prison breaks, guards had a lot of time on their hands.)

 

Price of gun w/ stick mag is $35,000 plus shipping/handling/insurance and any transfer fees. Gun is on a Form-3. All NFA rules apply.

 

Individual inquiries welcome. Thank you for looking, and again Frank, thanks for the board.

 

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m107/Co...MG/DSC_2795.jpg

 

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m107/Co...MG/DSC_2793.jpg

 

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m107/Co...MG/DSC_2813.jpg

 

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m107/Co...MG/DSC_2812.jpg

 

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m107/Co...MG/DSC_2811.jpg

 

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m107/Co...MG/DSC_2809.jpg

 

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m107/Co...MG/DSC_2808.jpg

 

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m107/Co...MG/DSC_2807.jpg

 

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m107/Co...MG/DSC_2802.jpg

 

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m107/Co...MG/DSC_2803.jpg

 

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m107/Co...MG/DSC_2801.jpg

 

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m107/Co...MG/DSC_2797.jpg

 

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m107/Co...MG/DSC_2798.jpg

 

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m107/Co...MG/DSC_2796.jpg

 

 

 

 

[OldFalGuy]

Great looking weapon. Mine is from the Alpine NJ PD with SN within 300 of that one- Wonder how many the State of NJ bought?? I thing the patina looks good- at least they spelled Mother right...... hahahahaha imagine finding one with Mutha on it... I tickle myself sometimes I am delirious-

Somebody send some rain down here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[October1971]

Old Fal Guy

 

Thanks for the comic relief! The other (10) New Jersey Prison guns were, 5866, 5949, 6407, 6650, 6689, 6951, 7197, 7373, 7699, and 14,339. Number 6103 actually looks more like a 90% + but because of the slight beginning "turning" and lack of finish on compensator, I rated it on the very conservative side.

 

Now if we just knew the name of the prison guard's mother...... what a story we could tell.

[sevengunner]

Re-barreled?

 

Barrel fins look squared off like WWII production, versus the more rounded profile that is correct for the Colt Tommy Guns.

 

Sven

[gijive]

QUOTE (sevengunner @ Aug 27 2006, 11:59 PM)

Re-barreled? Barrel fins look squared off like WWII production, versus the more rounded profile that is correct for the Colt Tommy Guns. Sven

Sven,

 

If you examine many Colt Thompson barrels you will find they they all vary to some degree, since they were hand made. The compensator on the gun is a correct first model compensator and has a different barrel thread than the later WWII barrels and compensators. If the barrel was changed someone would have had to turn down the threaded end to a smaller diameter size to accept the first type compensator. This is unlikely since if the barrel would have been replaced it would have been simpler and easier to just attach a standard second model or WWII variety compensator.

 

I believe the barrel to be original. It appears to be one that has some variation in the fin diameter, present on other Colt guns observed. The only way to tell for sure is to examine it first hand.

[Sig]

Agree with GI JIVE

Seems to be some confusion that all original Colt (Remington made) barrel fins have to be thin, they most definetly are not.

As he stated there is much variation including fin thickness. It would also be rather laborous to produce a small diameter barrel end for the early compensator, just would not make sense.

With what I can see, the barrel seems fine for that TSMG

[TAS1921AC]

My gun is within less than 100 of this one. It came from San Quentin. What's strange is that it too has thicker and squarer fins than most I've seen. And it has a #1 comp on it.

[October1971]

Thanks to all those who realized the barrel on the Colt NJ prison gun is original. One of the great things about this board is the combined knowledge that can be tapped into by posting a photo, question, or comment on anything "tommy."

 

And thanks to OldFalGuy for sending me the photos of your barrel fins. When I was in the insurance business for 20+ years, there was a term called the "law of large numbers" which dealt with statistics. It basically said that the larger number of items in the study (such as "x" number of homes in the U.S.) gives a more accurate picture of the probability of potential loss.

 

Well with MGbooks.com the more knowledgeable people who join the board, the more accurately we can determine the answer to "what if" questions posted by the members.

 

Thanks again to everyone who responded with info.