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New member seeking advice on market value for 1928 Savage British Proo

1928 Savage British Proof

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#21 av8tr

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 11:13 AM

Yes, yours is missing the dimples.

I am thinking the dimples are a US Property feature.  Absent on this gun, it being a cash and carry sale to Britain.


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#22 Glimpseofglory

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 01:11 PM

Speeddemon,

 

Thanks for the clarification. I read through the link/thread you shared regarding the missing dimples on the receiver. Interestingly,  one of the contributors indicated his "cash and carry" Thompson exhibits the following (no dimples on receiver or barrel, has British Crown markings on nose of receiver, a prominent "P" on the collar of the barrel and ton markings on the barrel out past the end of the fins).  These are the characteristics of my Thompson. Earlier pics I shared show all of the markings on receiver, barrel collar and ton markings at the end of the barrel.

 

Also, av8tr just noted on this thread, "I am thinking the dimples are a US Property feature. Absent on this gun, it being a cash and carry sale to Britain";

 

 

 

 

 

Attached File  Comment on MGB regarding British Proof.pdf   96.88K   7 downloads


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#23 Glimpseofglory

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 01:19 PM

Stamp collector, thank you for sharing the Steven "S" pic.


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#24 Glimpseofglory

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 09:49 PM

Excellent point Bob.

 

Steven, on the left side of the barrel collar (the part of the barrel touching the receiver), directly opposite of the Index marks should be a letter "S" that is either rounded (Savage Arms) or squared (Stevens Arms). I have seen this manufacturers mark down further on the barrel collar so keep looking if it is not in the 9:00 o'clock position. Please post a picture, if possible.

TD, I found the letter "S" exactly where you suggested (at the 9:00 o'clock position). Indeed this "S" is the squared version (Steven Arms). Picture is attached.

 

Attached File  IMG_3792e.jpg   105.57K   21 downloads


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#25 Glimpseofglory

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 09:54 PM

Can you show a picture of the top front of the receiver?  Curious of the dimple marks in recent discussions.

 

Speeddemon02, attached are several pics of the top view of the receiver from different perspectives. In a previous post, I think we answered the question regarding dimple marks. Let me know if this is what you were looking for.

 

Attached File  IMG_3871e.JPG   153.34K   29 downloadsAttached File  IMG_3872e.JPG   145.7K   27 downloadsAttached File  IMG_3873e.JPG   131.21K   26 downloads


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#26 Speeddemon02

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 11:12 PM

I was just curious, you never know.  Yours is confirmed to follow the norm.  So many little interesting things to look for on Thompsons.


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#27 TD.

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 01:49 PM

Steven,

The different assembly numbers on your butt stock, butt plate, and slide assembly tells me all these parts were not originally assembled together and none of them were probably a part of S-71870 when it left the Savage Arms factory in early 1941. This is very common for World War II Thompson guns. A big plus is the original Savage Arms vertical fore grip, by far the most desirable part. I personally think the gloss finish detracts from the Thompson but others on the Board may like the look. It is not original but everyone has different likes and dislikes. The fore grip has a flat look to it, at least in some of the pictures, the reason why I mentioned sanding. If I were to see it in-person, I may have a different opinion. 

 

The Stevens Arms barrel is correct and more importantly, with the correct finish, another big plus. 

 

S-71870 appears to be a 95% original gun. The only problem is the butt stock, something that no one is ever going to notice unless it is disassembled. A big plus for the butt stock is the British re-enforcement and sling swivel modifications. Perhaps, that is when the parts were mixed up. 

 

You have a nice Thompson gun. May I suggest a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to learn when it was entered on the NFA Registry and by what means or Form. 

 

All good stuff!!!


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#28 Jack Wright

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 02:56 PM

I think it is very unlikely that the typical British Thompson has its original butt stock. The stocks were
probably removed from the guns, disassembled, and the sling swivel relocated from the bottom to the
top of the stock. The reinforcing screws were added to the front of the stock at some point along the
way. Then the stock was ready for reassembly, using whatever metal was available. I doubt anyone
kept track of the stock’s original metal. Once reassembled, the stocks were probably put back on the
guns with no attempt to match the stock with the gun it was on when it arrived. This work was probably
done on a large group of guns at once as quickly as possible. Time constraints likely resulted in all the
butt stocks and metal parts on them going to guns other than their origionals, except, of course, by rare
chance. Does anyone know what the exact process/procedures for this rework were.
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#29 Glimpseofglory

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 03:00 PM

Jack, thank you for the additional context regarding the butt stocks. It makes perfect sense that in the hurried/harried circumstances of WW2 the British Armory would be more attentive to completing the updates/upgrades than matching numbers during reassembly. In answer to your question, I am not familiar with the armory's rework process (but like you, it would be interesting to know).


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#30 Robert Henley

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 08:44 AM

I'm curious about the designation "Model of 1928" on the side of the receiver.  You see a lot of guns with the "US" and "A1" ground off, but there's no indication these markings were ground off on this gun.  Can a Board expert explain the history of why some guns like this one are just stamped "Model of 1928" with no sign of the "US" or "A1" being ground off?  A very nice Thompson.  Thanks.

 

Robert


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#31 TD.

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 09:51 AM

Robert,

The Savage manufactured Model of 1928 Thompson guns purchased by Great Britain under cash & carry were not U.S. property and therefore were not marked with U.S. nomenclature. When the Lend Lease Act went into effect in 1941, the U.S. government took over all the Auto-Ordnance contracts and ended the British cash and carry acquisitions of these guns. The Thompson guns manufactured by Savage Arms for the U.S. government were marked to conform with military nomenclature requirements, hence the added U.S. and A1 markings. Thousands of Thompson guns marked in this matter were supplied to the British government under the Lend Lease Act. I go into a lot of detail about the British acquisition of the Thompson gun in my book, Great Britain - The Tommy Gun Story.

 

The Model of 1928 Thompson guns with the U.S. markings ground off and a letter "C" stamped over the number 1 to form "AC" are parts guns manufactured by Auto-Ordnance and sold to mostly law enforcement organizations in the United States after production of the Model of 1928 Thompson gun ended in 1942 (and production of the M1 Thompson began). This variation is usually referred to as the 1928AC. It is not a GI or military Thompson gun. It is a parts gun from one of the original manufacturers. And a collectable variation in its own right. Frank Iannamico describes this variation in The Ultimate Thompson Book and with much more detail in his American Thunder books.    


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