Haenelistklasse Posted November 18, 2019 Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 I was just rubbing oil on one of my babies and noticed all the parts that were marked. This is a very early Haenel coded gun and is marked 122 40 on the endcap with a serial of 24xxa also has an IRS serial number xxxx. It has the claw style cocking handle and unmodified receiver. I counted 13 different parts that were marked: 1) endcap 2) trigger guard 3) stock 4) receiver 5) rear site 6) bolt 7) firing pin 8) recoil spring assembly 9) sling ring 10) barrel 11) front site 12) resting bar (aluminum) and 13) mag well (slab side). My question is does anyone else have one marked the same? Does anyone have one with more marked parts than this one? If so, what other parts are marked on your gun? Just curious.... Take care, Haenelistklasse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annihilator Posted November 18, 2019 Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 You mean the serial number I suppose ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taeelec Posted November 18, 2019 Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 I have a '40 Steyr BNZ and a late '43 Erma AYF. I'll check mine tonight. Todd in Oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxim Posted November 18, 2019 Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 I have a lower that is a match to yours. Sorry, no upper, only parts. It is in the 'b' block, but the s/n has all five digits along the left side of the endcap as on MP38s.The s/n is also on the stock locking button. Bolt has four digits and a 'b', with a modified bolt locking handle. Not for sale, so don't ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Iannamico Posted November 18, 2019 Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 If you have a copy of the MP38 MP40 book Blitzkrieg there is a detailed description and photos of all the matching parts on an MP40...and lots more! https://www.smallarmsreview.com/inventory/detail.item.cfm?product_id=25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haenelistklasse Posted November 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 You mean the serial number I suppose ?Yes, the serial is what I meant. The recoil spring assembly has the complete serial other parts have the complete number and other parts just have either the last two (firing pin) or three (like the resting bar). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haenelistklasse Posted November 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 I have a '40 Steyr BNZ and a late '43 Erma AYF. I'll check mine tonight. Todd in Oregon Yes, if you could check it I would appreciate it. I also have an ayf 43 gun. Mine is serial 16xxS I think one of the last ones made. I think they stopped with W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haenelistklasse Posted November 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 I have a lower that is a match to yours. Sorry, no upper, only parts. It is in the 'b' block, but the s/n has all five digits along the left side of the endcap as on MP38s.The s/n is also on the stock locking button. Bolt has four digits and a 'b', with a modified bolt locking handle. Not for sale, so don't ask. Mine also has the serial along the left side of the endcap. Those are pretty cool parts. I will have to check my stock locking button. I didn't notice anything but you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annihilator Posted November 18, 2019 Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 This is an early 660 code MP40 it has the serial number on the bakelite parts too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annihilator Posted November 18, 2019 Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 This is an early 660 code MP40 it has the serial number on the bakelite parts too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haenelistklasse Posted November 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 This is an early 660 code MP40 it has the serial number on the bakelite parts tooThat is pretty neat. Is your gun dated 1940 or earlier? What suffix is your serial number? Just curious.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMGguy Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 Inside of the grips on the earlier MP-40s you'll often find a eagle / WaA number inspection stamp along with the code, such as ayf. Guns made after about early 1941 seem dispense with these markings. Very early MP40s can have the aluminum resting bar, serial numbered to the gun like the MP38. I have a spare set of MP38 grips with escutcheons made by AEG. Each has the ayf code inside. They're unusual in that they're NOS. Another set in my possession is 280 marked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black River Militaria CII Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 >I have a spare set of MP38 grips with escutcheons made by AEG. Each has the ayf code inside. They're unusual in that they're NOS. Another set in my possession is 280 marked. < The 1940 dated MP38, an ERMA example in my collection, is uniformly stamped with 280. Odd error in the "The Schmeisser Myth" occurs in figure 174 with the caption stating that the 1940 ERMA MP38 pictured is "code '22'. The code is '27', as stamped on the rear lower housing. FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annihilator Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 This is an early 660 code MP40 it has the serial number on the bakelite parts tooThat is pretty neat. Is your gun dated 1940 or earlier? What suffix is your serial number? Just curious....Mine is 40 dated, all matching number and the suffix is aMP40's dated "earlier* than 40 do not exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haenelistklasse Posted November 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 Uhhh, yes they do. If you look in the book The German MP40 Maschinenpistole by Frank Iannamico on page 93 is an fxo marked MP40 with a 1939 date. That gun was from the Lou Pacilla collection. They are extremely rare but they do exist. I did check the MP40 serial database of Alex Cruiming (mp40.nl) and he did not list a single MP40 dated before 1940 so they are as rare as hen's teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black River Militaria CII Posted November 20, 2019 Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) What's the serial number of the 'fxo', 1939 dated MP40? That would help in determining it's provenance. Steyr is credited as being the first manufacturer of the MP40 so an 'fxo' marked gun would have to be suspect. Edited November 20, 2019 by Black River Militaria CII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haenelistklasse Posted November 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 I looked at the picture in the book but the serial number can not be read from the way the picture was taken. Maybe Frank will chime in and let us know. I would really like to know where that rare beauty wound up. I am sure in some tightly held collection and it will never see the light of day again. It will get passed around between only the best of friends. That is probably the way it should be anyway I suppose. I did see a picture of an MP40 on the page before and if that is the same gun that serial number is 31840 no suffix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black River Militaria CII Posted November 20, 2019 Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 How did Haenel get ahold of an MP40 in 1939 when none existed yet? Allegedly, neither Haenel or Erma produced any MP40s until months alter Steyr began the first production of the type in 1940. Erma was still making MP38s to use up the inventory of parts allegedly to put more needed smgs into the hands of troops.A 1939 Haenel marked MP40 will have some explaining to do!FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annihilator Posted November 20, 2019 Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 And the fxo code itself most probably was not yet introduced in 1939 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haenelistklasse Posted November 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 Maybe it was a prototype model something used for T&E? The gun looks really good and 100% legit. Don't forget Germany was also bombed into smithereens so any or all paperwork may have been lost. Also most people involved with the making of the gun or guns have since passed away long ago. I think there is a lot of stuff about MP40 production we still don't know and will probably never know for the above reasons. I mean Frank thought enough about the gun to include it in his book so that says something to me. Just sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black River Militaria CII Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 Being a firm believer in verifiable proof bolstered by competent research over time, there is sufficient historical support for the view that Steyr was the first to actually manufacture/assemble the earliest MP40s with the other manufacturers following later. It seems to me that an 'fxo' gun dated1939 would have a very unique and appropriate serial number and other attributes that would indicate manufacture at a time when none allegedly had yet been manufactured. Maybe it does, and maybe there's info that is verifiable concerning the provenance of such an example so forgive my skepticism, but I've been exposed over many years to so much hype about various "unique" artifacts that without decent confirmation I always remain dubious.I would add that europe has been a hotbed of forgeries and fakes for many, many years, especially with German WWII collectibles, continuing unchecked today, including complete collector firearms of different types, etc and many parts and accessories that are difficult to distinguish from vintage items. I have seen many that truly are virtuoso creations. Having grown up in the MG collecting environment since the late 1950s there has been an awful lot of stuff floating around with quite impressive zlleged provenance that was just too good or too odd to be true. For me, what's true and verifiable is far more interesting than what "might be". FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxfaxdude Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 Being a firm believer in verifiable proof bolstered by competent research over time, there is sufficient historical support for the view that Steyr was the first to actually manufacture/assemble the earliest MP40s with the other manufacturers following later. It seems to me that an 'fxo' gun dated1939 would have a very unique and appropriate serial number and other attributes that would indicate manufacture at a time when none allegedly had yet been manufactured. Maybe it does, and maybe there's info that is verifiable concerning the provenance of such an example so forgive my skepticism, but I've been exposed over many years to so much hype about various "unique" artifacts that without decent confirmation I always remain dubious.I would add that europe has been a hotbed of forgeries and fakes for many, many years, especially with German WWII collectibles, continuing unchecked today, including complete collector firearms of different types, etc and many parts and accessories that are difficult to distinguish from vintage items. I have seen many that truly are virtuoso creations. Having grown up in the MG collecting environment since the late 1950s there has been an awful lot of stuff floating around with quite impressive zlleged provenance that was just too good or too odd to be true. For me, what's true and verifiable is far more interesting than what "might be". FWIW Sort of like the Nazi 22 LR pistol belt buckle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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