MARK2112 Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) hi all,new to the forum and have questions,im currently building a perfect 1921 colt clone with a Richardson receiver and a '28 parts kit. I have a lot of colt parts including the selector and safety, Vertical grip and unissued no cross bolt stock.I need to re blue every part to as close to colts finish as possible. Edited November 4, 2014 by MARK2112 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin601 Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) I believe Richardson will do it, at least he says it in his catalog. But remember he is not a 'smith, so no repairs to parts. Also, there is Philadelphia Ordanance, ReconBob on the forum. Edited October 23, 2014 by Paladin601 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK2112 Posted October 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 thanks paladin, Doug is out of the country for a while yet,so ill contact recon bob.HAS ANYONE ELSE BUILT A COLT CLONE YET..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reconbob Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 I get calls and emails on this all the time. One thing to keep in mind is that a M1921 type displayassembled with a lot of M1928A1 parts will be viewed as just that. The M1921 has many parts which aredifferent from the military M1928A1 - the engraving and numbering of the trigger frame, the mag catch,the compensator, the thickness and profile of the fins on the barrel, the appearance of the actuator, etc.etc. etc. You are not going to be fooling anyone that knows Thompsons into thinking your M1921/28A1display is a Colt. Do this because you want to, not because you think that 2 + 2 = 7 because you'veput these parts together. In other words, if the receiver was $750 and the parts are valued at, say, $1500then the whole thing would be worth $2,250. Not $3000. Another factor is the bluing. Colt had a special "Royal Blue" finish which gave the distinctive colorColts are famous for. This process is pretty much a lost art done by only a few specialists. The standardhot dip bluing that is available is a darker finish that no one will think is a M1921 finish. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK2112 Posted October 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) Not trying to fool anyone, just a fun hobby.I live in Illinois so I will never be able to own a real one.these richardson recievers are so darn nice and the people i consort with couldnt tell a real one from an airsoft.i really just want a nice fairly accurate display with as many original parts as possible. Edited October 23, 2014 by MARK2112 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) If it was my project, it would bug me until I finally found all the genuine colt parts for it. Which would be a lot of money. I'd end up making a really excellent 1928 display and calling it good. Edited October 23, 2014 by buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK2112 Posted October 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) I hear ya, colt parts are stupid expensive though and thats like putting a stack of hundreds on the mantle.i want it to look as good as i can make it and still be relatively affordable, i can slowly obtain colt parts in the future, but right now i just need a quality bluing job so i can get this project moving. Edited November 12, 2014 by MARK2112 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 OK having done this a few times, as I did it in painful increments to get it as close as I can. Here are my suggestions. First don't do it to sell, you will most likely not get your $ invested out of it, do it for the passion, not to sell. The Colt Thompson passion is a disease, learn to live with it and embrace the drained bank accounts that go with it. There is no cure, so don't bother trying. As for bluing. I have used two of the three mentioned here to blue using period correct techniques "Carbonia blue" for display items. It is NOT cheap and the ones I used take a long time. Just for emphasis, not cheap. http://www.ronsgunshop.com A long time ago, these guys took an original early C drum that was nearly in the white back to factory look. Amazing. I have identified this item as refinished with Gordon so that future owners are not disappointed later. http://www.stevemoellerrestoration.comThis guy took a Colt lower again nearly in the white and made it a Colt masterpiece for a shooter Colt. Yes I said shooter Colt. http://www.turnbullmfg.comNever used Turnbull, but have seen there work on 1911's, nice. You have a couple critical parts, Colt selector and safety levers, I chose to have PK covert Savage parts to Colt look, several times, he does real nice work. As Reconbob said there are many other challenges "the engraving and numbering of the trigger frame, the mag catch,the compensator, the thickness and profile of the fins on the barrel, the appearance of the actuator, etc.etc. etc." Trigger frame, I suggest finding a Colt if you really want to be authentic. It will then have a Colt lower number that can be engraved into the display receiver. Mag Catch, see my comments on PK's work on selector and safety levers, he does mag catch conversions as well Compensator, I would lean for a Doug Richardson 21A barrel with a pinned front sight. You will need to install the barrel, align the sight and then pin it to be authentic. My opinion much easier to do a 21A than trying to replicate a Colt era barrel with compensator. Don't forget the witness marks. The pinning needs a pro to help on that. Appearance of the actuator, believe Doug has display Colt style actuator knobs. I am not going to look in his catalog right now to check. Other thoughts not mentioned yet.There are subtle differences between a Colt era Lyman sight and WWII, ask the board to assist on that, I am not that expert. There are subtle differences on the buttstock plate, such as there is a screw coming out form the backside of that plate, that on a Colt has a very slight protrusion. The buttstock slide release button has subtle differences. Other thoughtsA display receiver should have a serial number on it, ideally matched to the lower acquired. A matched set of Colt shaped wood can be acquired from Dan, perhaps someone can help me with his board name, as I am fried from too much budget meetings. His wood artwork is much less expensive than an original Colt/Remington set. Believe a flat Colt style ejector is available from Gordon Herigstad.http://thompsonaccessories.com/home.htm I am sure I missed something, the board can help me fill in. If I did it again, I would take the $ and put it toward a real live Colt Thompson, at the time I started, that was not an option for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The1930sRust Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Move... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK2112 Posted October 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Bought an unissued no cross bolt stock and stripped down the metal to refinish the stock in a mahogany stain and tru oil to get that reddish patina of an original. I have the correct flat ejector nos and an original savage unissued vertical grip.lower is early savage but is close to mint.i drilled the hole in the selector and had it knurled, full auto selector is colt.i properly radiused the fins on the barrel and the rear sight is nos unissued out of the box millett.the drum is an early repro made in usa but like new.when its done ill do some pictures so you fine people can help me make it museum quality.i work in the arms field as the manufacturing director and have acess to whatever i need except a quality bluing dept.i couldnt even think of selling it because the quality would suffer if it wasnt for my own keeper.i will ask for help when needed on this subject so i can get reliable info from people who have actual colt thompsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndArmored Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 +1 on Ron's Gun Shop. I sent him a Colt revolver back when there was still a Soviet Union. Be patient and be happy. I haven't worked with the others that Sig mentioned. As a (comparatively) old man who still remembers spending his youth trying to turn sow's ears into ballistic silk purses, I recommend you read Buzz's 3 sentences again. Slowly. And think about what you're willing to do to get a "museum quality" 1921 Colt. It can be immeasurably rewarding or frustrating as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK2112 Posted October 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 im going to talk with RGS and stick to the carbonia blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrylta Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 I have a Colt trigger frame and Colt safety lever and a dummy Colt marked receiver as well that is serial # marked tomatch the lower. PM me if your interested.-Darryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK2112 Posted October 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 did the colts have a high sheen on the furniture when they left the factory?anyone have pictures of their colts wood so I can view the finish. Mine is working out to be a hand rubbed tru oil finish, but I may have to subdue it a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) 21AC This Colt has Clenzoil on it, bring out a shine to the finish. Normally it's a semi-gloss look/ satin. Edited October 25, 2014 by OCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK2112 Posted October 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 ok.....do we know if that is an untouched colt finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) Or how do you know what the finish looked like in 1921? Not too many thompsons got taken off the assembly line and then locked into a hyperbaric chamber, with no sunlight, atmospheric oxidation, gun lube or hand oil to thin the blue and put a varnish (patina) on it. It's been close to 100 years of aging and getting rubbed with a oily rag with all kinds of acids, dirt, and hand mung on it. That will change what blue looks like. I'm not being critical, but I think the main problem with your project is this: The people who would care that it's an absolutely perfect Colt copy are the same people who would recognize that it's not a perfect Colt copy. But everyone else would be just as impressed by looking at a 1928. Because any thompson is an impressive, iconic gun. So you're going to end up with a gun that's worth exactly what the parts are worth. Edited October 24, 2014 by buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK2112 Posted October 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 this is a project of research and knowledge......well its fun too. Its not a sale item its a hobby. Just curious on what the wood looked like coming out of the shop.if it was a colt made almost a hundred years ago,im guessin the wood was fairly glossy and not as flat as say a '28 or M1.also my Richardson receiver was marked as a '21 colt ,so that's what I have to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda4 Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Mark2112 - I really appreciate what you are doing as I have a few Colt replicas myself.I think what Sig says really hits home. And I know you are gonna do it anyway because it reads like you do have the passion!Your biggest problem is making the markings on the lower correct - as mentioned before. And there are few for sale. I did see an unmarked lower in the white recently but cannot remember where.Noting the costs of making everything on the lower side into a Colt replica, I went with the route of finding a couple complete Colt lowers. No, they were not inexpensive. But then getting a Richardson dummy ( I also have several PO dummies too) and using a PK barrel and sight, with Dan Block (Deerslayer on this board) wood, I created what looks like a very real gun but it is a still a dummy. I can actually walk away from the table when I bring it to a show.I recently saw several Colt 1921s that were on a Form 10 cut into parts kits by a Police Dept. Nearly cried. But - the cost of a Richardson dummy receiver and one of those kits will be about half the cost of a shooter Colt. Yes, really. And approaching the cost of a shooter Westie or even M1 (One went at the Creek for IIRC under $17K).So what do you really want? Or want to spend?Move slowly - get a 1928 dummy, upgrade it to a 1921 when the right deals come around, then save your $$$ for a shooter gun as well. An old guy where I work often told me I want too much - too fast! Now I am an old guy - so that is my $0.02 worth!Good luck,Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK2112 Posted October 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the help gentleman.......photos will be posted upon completion Edited October 26, 2014 by MARK2112 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Haaaaa, I hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK2112 Posted November 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) So.......i blued the kit this weekend, looking at it, im thinking id like to make it look worn and lightly used.kina like a light steel wool to rub off some of the blue in the usual areas.im not gonna weather the wood though , that would be counterproductive.ive seen the thompson stands on the internet with the radiused drum pocket but it looks to me like this will allow the gun to roll off and crush somebodys skull, so im still up for ideas.all in all its comming along nicely.i made a polished buffer to install and already had richardsons accurate actuator knob to install.the only thing im missing is the knuerled safty and a colt mag release.not trying to fool anyone just trying to make it as close to original as i can afford.i agree a colt complete lower would be best but at $4000.00 thats just too much for a display.and then you have to even find the lower which is just about impossible.maybe in the future i can change it to a '28 A1 and keep the original savage parts i have. Edited November 3, 2014 by MARK2112 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThompsonCrazy Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 How about some photos to see the new finish? Sounds like a fun project! TC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman1957 Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 My stand is supported by the drum. It is very stable. If it "rolls" off its only because someone knocks it over. Gordon's is stable as well, although the one supported by the drum is a C Drum. Even if you place either of them a little off center they don't move. Have other shots of ones I copied from this one with fancy wood. Didn't want to use the same photos over again. All of these guns are gone sans the Capgun. That was mine as a kid, and too "valuable" to sell !!Sandman1957 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK2112 Posted November 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 that's kinda what im thinking as far as the stand goes,im guessing you made that one?got one to sell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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