War Baby Vol. 1 -Best Book?

[mnshooter]

Is War Baby Vol. 1 the best book to start with for a Carbine reference?

(My interest is with the wartime production, so don't have a need at present for Vol. 2).

 

The best price I've seen is around $59.00 delivered. Does this sound about right?

 

Any other Carbine books that would suplement the information in this one?

[dalbert]

mnshooter,

 

Yes, that's a great book to start with on the M1 Carbine. You will also want War Baby II, though, once you get the original War Baby! However, there are other books I would recommend in addition to the Ruth books, such as Bruce Canfield's book that covers both the Carbine and Garand, and also the Comprehensive M1 Carbine Guide by Larson. Some folks will not agree with my assessment of the Larson book, because they point to some errors that exist, however I believe it is the most complete photographic guide for a collector.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[mnshooter]

Thanks

The Larson book seems to be the controversal one. The detractors say it has many photos of fake parts, but still has use in identifying those fakes. I wouldn't know. Might have to get one just to check against what I'm quite certain is an early original Inland.

[BBD]

Before "War Baby", Larry Ruth wrote "Design, Development, and Production" of the m1 carbine(from 1979), and I feel it has alot of indepth information that had to be slimmed down and out for War Baby, of which War Baby ended up with alot more pictures which unfortunately is what alot of folks like sometimes, loads and loads of pics, like for those who don't normally do any regular reading. I have the Larson Book, and the Canfield book, and I don't really feel like I am "collecting", even though I have a number of carbines, a small number, but of course, the Larson book is a thick one with lots of photographs, the Canfield book has some interesting carbine facts per manufacturer and some collector advice, etc. War Baby #2 book, that seems out of print, well when I was looking last year, covering newer made post ww2 carbines/variations, probably a great book, but both War Baby books were done like twenty years ago, unsure if they are updated or still as good.

AS for the Larson book having errors, as a non serious collector myself, I likely didn't notice anything, and even then it would likely be something obvious like a mis labeled pic, if that is all, big deal, its been all over the place in price, unsure about the pics of fake parts, I suppose they are listed as real/etc etc, but man, some of the repro stuff is getting so good that you really have to have like most if not all the books to learn "everything" on what to look for in originality of mere parts.... likely the Canfield book is the cheapest, not as much information, but covers garand and carbine at least.

Edited March 7, 2012 by BBD

[emmagee1917]

It depends on your intended use. For a general guide of the carbine for someone not into heavy collecting of them , Canfields is good. If you want a ton more info on development , history , and the nitty-gritty of the individual parts markings and the date / times they appeared , Ruth's is it. Ruth's is dated , and new info has shown some errors over the years . If you have a bad case of carbine collecting and want to go after the rare , original ones , then you need Ruth's book and then join the carbine collectors club and buy all thier back issues of thier newsletters , which will bring you up to date on info . Still , it'll take a while to build a good eye for what's real and what's fake.

Chris

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

mnshooter,

 

... and also the Comprehensive M1 Carbine Guide by Larson. Some folks will not agree with my assessment of the Larson book, because they point to some errors that exist, however I believe it is the most complete photographic guide for a collector.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

 

Dave,

 

I read your posts on the subject on CMP website. It is confounding how author Larson was oblivious about the reputation of George Liakos, aka Riverbank Armory, m1carbineparts.com, 1RIVERBANK, ABCLeigh, No Guts No Glory, etc, as an infamous supplier of repro M1 Carbine parts. Of all the M1 Carbine collectors collections Larson could have used for photo references of original GI parts, to rely on Liakos for legitimate G.I. parts is foolhardy at best. That Liakos promotes this book above all other M1 Carbine books on his website speaks volumes. Larson may indeed have had good intentions, but even a cursory check on Riverbank Armory during the preliminary research for his book would have dissuaded him from having anything to do with Liakos.

 

While Frank Iannamico relied on a Michael Free owned Colt TSGM (with suspect bolt) for reference photos in ATI & II, Free's character was not revealed until this year. Liakos has been selling repro M1 Carbine parts advertised as G.I. parts for over a decade.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Arthur Fliegenheimer

[dalbert]

Arthur,

 

I reaffirm my statement that the Larson book is the most complete photographic guide for a collector. I challenge anyone to substantively rebut that statement.

 

Personally, I have found that I always go to the Canfield book first, then the Larson book, then the Ruth books. This is a reflection of the user-friendliness of the Canfield book, followed by the number of photos in the Larson book, followed by the amount of time it takes to find something in the Ruth books.

 

I noticed that a second edition of the Larson book has already been published. I have not purchased it yet, but probably will at the next OGCA show. Whatever its detractors say, the Larson book had much effort put forth, and if the author has since improved upon it, that will be welcomed. I know that I provided Larson with specific feedback by letter in regards to one error found within, and I received a thankful response. This is the manner in which inaccuracies can be corrected.

 

I found it interesting that most folks who had negative impressions of the Larson book on the CMP Forum had not actually seen it.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[jim c 351]

mnshooter,

You might want to go to www.jouster.com for more opinions.

There was recently a discussion on the carbine forum on this subject.

Jim C

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Arthur,

 

I reaffirm my statement that the Larson book is the most complete photographic guide for a collector. I challenge anyone to substantively rebut that statement.

.

 

I found it interesting that most folks who had negative impressions of the Larson book on the CMP Forum had not actually seen it.

 

David Albert

 

It is indeed an excellent photographic guide for the informed collector. Several photos illustrate the tell tale signs of reproduction parts. The problem is that the author does not distinguish reproductions from the originals.

 

The CMP folks are parochial in their feelings about disseminating information about identifying repo parts on the website. They prefer you buy their newsletter. Of course part humpers selling repros as originals could just as easily buy the newsletter if their intention were to produce counterfeit parts with better accuracy.

 

However, some CMP negative reviews of the book do include actual examples of the author's witting or unwitting subterfuge.

Pg. 35 fake Rockola barrel.

Pg. 50 fake bands

Pg. 52-54 fake bands and swivels.

Pg. 60 fake flip sights.

Pg. 106 fake push safeties.

 

[dalbert]

Arthur,

 

I reaffirm my statement that the Larson book is the most complete photographic guide for a collector. I challenge anyone to substantively rebut that statement.

.

 

I found it interesting that most folks who had negative impressions of the Larson book on the CMP Forum had not actually seen it.

 

David Albert

 

It is indeed an excellent photographic guide for the informed collector. Several photos illustrate the tell tale signs of reproduction parts. The problem is that the author does not distinguish reproductions from the originals.

 

The CMP folks are parochial in their feelings about disseminating information about identifying repo parts on the website. They prefer you buy their newsletter. Of course part humpers selling repros as originals could just as easily buy the newsletter if their intention were to produce counterfeit parts with better accuracy.

 

 

However, some CMP negative reviews of the book do include actual examples of the author's witting or unwitting subterfuge.

 

Pg. 35 fake Rockola barrel.

Pg. 50 fake bands

Pg. 52-54 fake bands and swivels.

Pg. 60 fake flip sights.

Pg. 106 fake push safeties.

 

 

 

 

Arthur,

 

Yes, I read the Carbine Club newsletter review, and I believe you have called out the specific issues that they referenced in their article. They also made some comments about how the author used certain terms that made him seem less knowledgeable than he should be. IIRC, he used "ordinance" instead of "ordnance," and made some other mistakes that would have been caught by an outside editor. Overall, for the scope of the book, and some of the negative reactions that came out on the CMP Board about the new book, I was surprised that the Carbine Club newsletter did not provide more error examples. I would not characterize the book as being full of errors if the 5 specific errors they noted were the only ones called out.

 

I'm anxious to get the 2nd edition, and see what changes were made. I still think it's a very good guide, and if it gets better, perhaps some of the naysayers will come to accept it. Sometimes it takes a first effort with some flaws to enable an excellent work as the end product. We'll see...

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com