18 replies to this topic

[2dogsfightin]

Just fishing for info.....Did Auto Ordnance make one?? If so was it any good???? I know a J R Ciener is out there. Any Others???Any constructive information would greatly appreciated. Share your expertice....good or bad


2Dogs ,,,,, OUT

[philasteen]

Experiences with recently produced Ciener kits seem to be better than in the past. I was thinking of getting one to check it out, especially now that mags are available again.

[deerslayer]

2dogs,
I have also posted in the past on the auto ordnance kits (probably made in the 70's). I only have the semi auto version, but I believe numrich made them for full auto and semi auto guns. The paperwork in my box alludes to that fact. The coversion barrel was terrible and funtion was very poor.


Phil,
I was wondering if a guy could make a bolt (or modify the existing one) to allow it to travel the full length of the receiver internally. Maybe make a pair of guide rods and springs (like a grease gun). Make it heavy and the springs light. What do you think?
Dan

[hawksnest]

I bought a Ceiner M-1 kit from Tom at the TCA show. It runs great. I was told Remington gold bullet was what it was designed to shoot and what Ceiner recommends but I have shot Remington "Wildcat", Winchester High Speed (gray box), Remington standard velocity, aguila subsonic (40 grain) and Super subsonic (SSS 60 grain) and they all ran flawlessly. I don't thing the rifling is the right twist for the aguila 60 grain, but it runs great. I clean the bore with a bore snake every 100 rounds. The mags get hard to load after 25 rounds, so I shoot 25 in each, which is a box of .22s when you load two mags. Since I once owned a West Hurley Full Auto .22 (which was an unsafe piece of crap) I am very pleased with the Ceiner.

[full auto 45]

I have shot AMAFRANKS .22 Ceiner conversion in the 28 WH. It ran like a champ. I did have a couple of run aways where it would dump a clip with the finger off the trigger after you started firing. But that was after you fired several rounds from the mag. Sometimes it would run 3-5 at a time. But over all, it ran great.

[Merry Ploughboy]

Speaking not from personal experience but from many have said on the subguns and ar15 discussion forums, ABC is usually the best bet. That is, Anything But Ceiner.

For every make and model discussed, each one is an individual case - some excellent, some take tweaking, and some never work right no matter what. In all cases, the aluminum bolt evenually wears (one person reported over 25,000 rounds of good performance in an M16 before the bolt wear caused problems). Why doesn't JAC put a steel wear plate (as I believe Phil has done)? For the same reason he's "difficult" to deal with. He's JAC.

As for the modified bolt with full travel that is used with lighter springs, like so many TSMG good ideas, a lot of cost for a very limited number of sales. The piece price would never pay for the engineering and tooling. Witness the discussions regarding new C drums.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

MP

[philasteen]

Ouch!! I just looked at JAC's website and the kit is $499 + $99 per extra mag!

[2dogsfightin]

Sounds like "IF" your gonna go 22 you should try a new Ciener conversion.
I think Ill take my M1A1 to Knob Creek with me this fall. Ill tell J A C Ill buy one if it will run 3 clips of 25 without a hic-cup. See if he will put his reputation on the line...LITERALLY.

By the way....... There is an Auto Ordnance (W H) 22 conversion for sale on Gunbroker . Complete with orig box and paperwork.... If any of you collectors might be interested. GB Item # 36210877 Opening bid is $200.oo I just found it I dont know anything about it........



2Dogs ,,,,, OUT

[OldFalGuy]

2Dogs- That one is a semi which who knows may work. The full auto ones apparently have problems as we have seen at least 2 on the big boards that wouldn't sell at 7-8K- Reckon no one wants to take the chance on it but a non shooter collector- better to risk $500 on the kit or a grand on a semi- I won't go with the kit unless I get to test it out (pie in the sky) since all I have is a Thompson copy..WH JAC says he doesn't guarantee it to operate in.

I bet he won't take your challenge at KCR-

Edited by OldFalGuy, 20 August 2005 - 11:11 PM.

[jerrys]

Ok, I'm probably going to take a pounding on this one, but why do people want to try and run a gun with a caliber that is wasn't designed for and then end up being unhappy when it won't run right with something different than it was designed for. There's a lot if engineering that has to go into this to make it right. Is is really worth the trouble? It's a Thompson, not a .22. It's the feeling I got when I was at the range and was shooting my 21/28, MP5SD, UZI and other subguns and a fellow shooter and I traded guns and he let me shoot his .22 UZI conversion. It was ok, but why?(I didn't tell him that). Maybe it's the wrong analogy but to me this is like buying a Rolls and then complaining about the mileage, saying I wish it would run on cheaper gas.

I can always appreciate and respect someone working in their garage saying "what if I did this...". However, to me, it just feels like I downsized for no good reason. It's like BB King said "the thrill is gone".

Just my point of view.

[Carbine1]

Waiting list for a Ciener Thompson conversion (ordered directly from them) seems to be quite long.
Have been waiting over 3 months, order payed in full. Finally had to send a letter to find out what the status of my order was as they do not pick up the phone. Reply was sent promptly via mail, "On backorder, will ship ASAP". Pay the money, wait in silence, hope its worth it. Others might have better luck going through a dealer.

FWIW

[OldFalGuy]

That is just plain pathetic- can't really imagine the demand would be THAT high-remeber these are for "real" Thompsons so its notthe fella's with semi's buying them all up- More than likely Ceiner hasn't made any in a while. He goes through phases- builds one thing, then moves on till he comes full circle. Same happened ont he AK 22 kits and his suppressed Browning 22's.
Hope yours works great-

Did the AO 22 kits ever work on the full autos??

Mark

[full auto 45]

From what I've heard the AO kits didn't work in the FA guns. I have one inthe box, but it looks so funky I wouldn't want to try it.

[Merry Ploughboy]

An interesting and elaborate .22 cal conversion for the Thompson is shown in U.S. Patent No. 2,427,304, issued Sept. 9, 1947 to Charles Robbins. Like the early .22 cal conversions for the Colt 1911 pistol, the Robbins patent seeks to provide "recoil incident to the firing of a .22 calibre cartridge so as to approach the recoil produced incident to the firing of a larger calibre cartridge."

MP

[Bridgeport28A1]

The Robbins .22 adapter is mentioned in The Gun That Made the Twenties Roar. Maybe we just need someone to produce this model .22 adapter and not invent a new protoype. Might this be the adapter that Tracie had?

[OldFalGuy]

Thanks Mike,

If that is what you heard and learned being around THommpsons a helluva lot longer than me I will take it as gospel. ITs a shame but at times we get desperate for a solution and over reach. If I can buy the kit for poco nada I will otherwise I will wait till Phil wins the lotto, gets a machine shop and produces the 9mm conversion in numbers suffieceint to make them kick JAC's ass.

Mark

[full auto 45]

PhilOhio,
I go to BIMINI, I can find you.

[full auto 45]

I used it one time. Less then a clip. Out of 30 rounds, first 5 or so were screwy so I shit canned them. One round fired and the bullet went about 2 inches into the barrel. That was it, I sold all I had to a guy that shoots pistols and he loved it. S&B for me now.

[Merry Ploughboy]

Phil,

Agreed. Ammo crud, especially from .22s, is the bane of any elaborate gun system.

The Robbins conversion would have to cost a bizzilion dollars if JAC want $499 for his relatively simple system.



All,

JAC may have adopted the ARES (i.e., Shrike) business model.

MP