billatlanta

Tracer, Nice, nice, NICE!! What would your opinion be on the market for an M3 of this quality? Bill

Wayne (SWD) designed the MAC 10 -.45 so that if you cut the back of a M3 mag (the strip where the catch locks) by about .100" the mag catch will lock it and be positioned to strip the next shell. I have about 25 of these cut by SWD. I think the side stops are positioned correct on an uncut M3, so I'm guessing that if you held a M3 mag up fully by hand - it would run (but not lock in.) Conversely - if you were to install an SWD (40 or 30 or 10) in a Grease Gun it would flop up and down by about .100" Someone made an aftermarket mag catch with the two different grooves in it so you can use either without mods. A very unique accessory and I would have one except I have so many already cut for the MAC, and maybe 75 uncut for the Greaser. Wayne showed me a MAC 10 that they tested to about 10,000 rounds without ever cleaning it, and without a single failure to feed. They can noticeably slow down when getting leaded up- but if you keep firing until it gets too hot to hold- it will self clear the lead. Amazing guns. Bill, Atlanta

Wood doesn't look that bad, maybe light clean and light rub with BLO. Nice gun. Bill

Board Members I received an email from Brian today, he didn't mean for it to be public but I thought I'd copy and paste it here, I don't think he would be pissed, as there's nothing secret or personal. I Just wanted you to know the kind of guy Brian is: Bill, I do appreciate your observations on the guns. I could probably get more, but it really isn't about the money. If they were 6 figure guns, the pool of people that could afford and enjoy them would be drastically reduced. I'd rather they were cherished by a gun enthusiast versus another trophy for an elitist. I did talk to rock island auction and they were quite interested in listing the collection but I wanted to give fellow boards members first shot. Thanks Brian To Those who could have afforded them -- you missed your chance to buy the finest Colts far below "market" value! And to those who have been watching in interest -- you witnessed someone who values something more than MONEY (try and find another, you'll have a long, long search.) Keep in mind he sold a lot more than Thompsons - almost immediatly! I guess some people knew them and snatched them up (Arthur was wondering how they sold so fast.) They were 6 figure guns. Is 28N # 8016 the last one now? At 60K I would buy it myself, except that I sometimes think I hear "The Grim Reaper" banging at my door late at night --- and I don't think even a near mint 28N would help. Don't worry, he'll get around to you sooner or later, you just might not hear him knock first. So-- enjoy life to the fullest, and shake the hand of those true GENTLEMEN like the above when you find one, they're so few and far between. Hey, don't worry about me! I'll probably be posting years from now. If Obama can get the Nobel peace prize- maybe I stand a chance for a Pullitzer for posting. My compliments to the many fine people on this board. Bill

Note, FWIW, I have personally seen, inspected every inch of this gun, minor disassembled it. In my opinion the receiver is 100%, not even the slightest imperfection, except possibly the actuator being moved, or perhaps a line where the selector was turned. The wood could be the only deduction with the chip missing, and a few rubs- but not refinished. So - I would not know how to grade it in the scale of 100. If you're looking at finish only- you are near 100. I can however compare it to #6164 (having owned it for a decade +) as follows. Number 6164 is stunning overall, with only one screwdriver scratch above the spring retainer and some very microscopic rubs on the blued surface on the right as if it were set on a wooden table (again microscopic that can't be seen from 1 foot, and only in the proper light. Brian mentioned the scuffs on the butt plate where it sat and a couple on the compensator. The wood is 100% - period. Keep in mind we're nit picking on a 99+ point something gun! Number 8016 is the reverse, the receiver is spectacular with only comments on the wood. I dare you to find even the slightest rub anywhere on the blueing like edge wear on ANY edge, the tops of the sight guards, the end of the compensator, the top of the actuator-- none! The general concenses is the top 3 Thompsons are by condition #6164, #167, and this #8016. Brian has collected all 3. I have also advised Brian that I suspect this gun has been unfired ever, save any testing by Colt. The history on this gun is that it was confiscated by a Pennsylvania Sheriff during a robbery, and documented by the property sheet and logged in as confiscated during robbery. It was then amnistied in 1968. It is suspected to have remained untouched in the property locker since consficated. The current District Attorney was kind enough to give all the information that he could find, however I have uncovered additional information that was previously unknown, and I would be willing to share this information (only) to the purchaser, and could help him/(her?) persue additional avenues. Brian again is being modest and conservative, and his price on this is way too low, and again I would buy this one at this price (except for the reasons previously stated.) If anyone thinks these are overstated - please feel free to step up and show something better. Forget the one in Florida - mint $200,000. (bore's just a little rusty?) and the couple advertised by the dealer for the secret collector at $100,000., and $85,000. -- not even close! If I can assist anyone on this, let me know. Bill

Brian, Thanks, I reviewed the old thread, you know what's missing now ?????? ALL the old CRITIQUE from the EXPERTS !!!! Remember back in the day they used to have arguments and name calling on this board, it used to be that the administrator had to warn, delete, ban some members about every day. We had some very active and knowledgeable members, and VERY heated discussions. The arguments went on for hundreds of posts, especially the one about the Colt linage stopping at Numeric Arms -- that was always a good one. There were great discussions regarding 6164 by most everyone on the board-- but the sole consensus when it was all done was that there has not been seen a better condition gun in modern times. There were about 50 posts deleted regarding it's condition----- the reason they are deleted is that the members went back and deleted their posts so they could not be counted against them for "strikes" and retribution, even the administrator deleted many as being too far out there. I sure miss PhilOhio he used to post several every day and get Z3BigDaddy all rilled up. Today you could even let your children read the board. If I recall there is another thread that started with "Shotgun News Ad" If I can help any members in any way, do not hesitate to ask. Bill

Devil Dog 1110, Thank you for your kind words. It would be my honor to meet you some day. Best regards, Bill

Brian is being modest, and is super critical (he thinks a 98% gun is "rough.") If anyone searched "6164" on this board they would see my posts on this gun maybe around 2007, so, I Guess I'm outed as being the previous owner "Atlanta Collector." At that time I posted mayby 75 high resolution photos of every aspect of 6164, it was reviewed by everyone, and the experts pretty well agreed that this was the finest Colt known to exist to date. I don't know of anyone who has ever proven one better. Only #167 was suspected to be better condition - but many of those who actually saw and touched 167 say that hands down 6164 was superior condition. Having owned 6164 for over a decade, I never got over my initial breath taking gasp when I first saw it - it literally takes your breath away if you know Colts, it's a shock to see how beautifull a Colt was when it left the factory. Brian fails to put a number grade on it but I think we would agree on something like 99.something %. Maybe 99.4%, 99.6%, 99.8% ?? The wood is 100% without question, and I kept it preserved with "Howards Antique" lemon and bees wax on occasion. The gun came to me with residue of cosmoline in many places, and the former owner stated he only ran one drum through it, and I ran a couple mags and one drum through it at Knob Creek. I saw Tracy Hill at the Creek and asked him if he wanted to shoot it. He was looking at the gun and went into shock stating: "You can't shoot a gun like this!" "You're destroying history- and just because you can afford to buy it doesn't mean you have the right to destroy it!" "People like you should not be able to own a gun like this! And went STORMING off never to be heard of again. Subsequently, I went over to a friend Rick Cartledge, who was a noted Thompson expert and Author, who is a Vet in a wheel chair, and he ran one of the above mentioned magazines, saying it was a memorable experience. My only reason for selling it was due to my advancing age and deteriorating health. I enjoyed just being able to take it out of the vault and look at it, and show it to a few friends. But, you know when it's time to let things go. Brian purchased it from me in a somewhat private sale, not many people knew it changed hands, and even though Brian posted photos of his collection here-- he just modestly failed to mention that he had probably the top three Colts known! Frankly, I'm shocked that he is only asking 75K for it. If I still owned 6164 I would not consider selling it for less than 100K ! And at 75K I would buy it back -- except where the hell am I going with that? You won't find a better person to deal with than Brian, we've done a few deals and he's old school, trustworthy and his word is his bond. To whoever buys 6164 - my congradulations, you'll love it and probibly never top it. Bill

$25K to me sounds way too high for an average nice gun. I'm thinking $20 ish, and be all original low milage. I did see one MINT condition with the original shipping cardboard box for asking $27K, and the gun looked untouched. I would have bought it if I didn't have a near perfect one already. I perfer the M3, but that's just a personal choice. Most everyone who shoots the greaser falls in love. Good luck. Bill

"Reverse" plating would be cheapest, easiest, and safest and 100% They reverse the annode and cathode and the plate is attracted off, just the reverse of putting it on. Finding anyone with cyanide these days might be tough. Bill

I'm too old to be "dating a modern repro Thompson." I'll leave that to the younger guys. Bill

F/A and Semi board. I'll third that, I'm sure both would be happier. Bill

And the correct answer is:............................HALF-TRACK ! The cases were standard issue on all early models (qty: 2) clearly listed in parts book. If it has a part # on it it will begin with "G-102*" The bracket is not comonly seen. I could check the books and see what they list. I doubt if they were "issued" for Jeeps (maybe someone cobbled) because the Jeep never was issued Thompsons, the Half-Track was issued 2 Thompsons, first the 1928 then later the M1 (and some rifles) as standard. Interesting- thanks for posting. I have an original M-16 Half-Track, not for sale. Bill

0928jets, If you think that might be what you would be interested in- give him a call, he's easy to deal with and will give you the streightforward info. I have delt with him a couple times before, and every time was a very positive experience. Won't cost you anything just to inquire, I think he even has an 800 #. If nothing else you'll get to talk with a real EXPERT. He would probably give you his # if you PM him. Bill

0928jets, Cool your jets and take the time to find the finest Colt you can find. As a collector, you'll never regret buying the best. There were many more than 500 overstamps, someone here will probably tell you how many. I searched for years for the finest, had Cox and other dealers looking for me, finally found one from an individual. I paid 2 1/2 times the average nice price, probably the highest ever paid for a Thompson at that time. I treasured it for about 15 years and sold it for 8 times what I paid (about half price of an average home.) You can't predict the future price, too many unforseen circumstances. I purchased about a dozen full autos before the '86 ban. If you bought one in 2007- you would be down now, but in the long future I don't think you could lose. This is your best source for expert advice. Welcome, and good to have you onboard. Bill

I like it! Looks like a perfect shooter to me, trouble is that when you get one restored to perfection - you'll be overly cautious not to get the first scratch or rub on it. I purchased my M3 from Bob Landies at Ohio Ordance in the late 80's, was an amnisty gun, looked mint (may have been restored to perfection and nos parts.) I let numerous people shoot it at events, and I enjoy it for it's uniqueness, one of my favorites, still maybe 98%, and 100% reliable, I preload about 25 mags and run them. hasn't misfired or jammed yet. It's my buddy, so I sometimes take it for a ride behind the front seat in my SUV. I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Bill

The last time I talked with a Mobile 1 Engineer, a couple years ago, regarding a couple technical issues, I raised the issue of Mobile 1 in firearms, and machineguns in particular. His response was "good news/ bad news." He stated the good news is that it would be superior for: friction, wear, extreme pressure, and extereme temperature, and residual retention, and hydroscopisy (sp?) meaning it won't mix with and retain moisture, and if operated at a high temp would allow moisture to evaporate without the lube breaking down. (Good on all moving parts.) The only bad news is that it would be inferior in corrosion resistance as it does not contain as many inhibitors as other lubes (because that is not the enviornment it was formulated for or operates in.) That said-- we surmised that it would be best to ADD some to moving parts before shooting, and here's another trick- it IS miscable (mixes) with regular oils so you don't need to clean first, remembering that a diluted mixture will dilute the benifits proportionatly. I use 20W, rather than the 10W or 0W. If you use in your car, the drainage from 5 cans would lube your collection for life. So--- maybe the correct answer would be oil your gun for storage, add synthetic before (and during shooting) and re-oil for storage, for the best of both worlds ? I clean and use a protective oil when not in use. Another thread asked about a leather holster for his TSMG-- don't ever STORE one in leather because it has a high moisture content and acids. Ever look at the rivets on a WW11 holster? Mobile is great, I think anyone could call and ask to speak to an engineer to answer any technical question. p.s. Tractor trailers are running about 50,000 miles before oil change, and Ford has "Lifetime sealed" many of their differentials (rear axles) not to be checked or changed for life unless leakage or submersion in water. And a 747 jet engine operates on only 1 or 2 quarts? Bill

That's probably ALL he would get!

He may have made his payments, but it appears that the Judge found him in contempt (for the second time) after a first warning, of continueing trying to hide or sell some of his assets !! TSMG's included? Judge ordered immediate seisure. So what would be the status of the NFA TSMG's? Are they still TRANSFERABLE ? Not sure if this has been done before. GO STRAIGHT TO JAIL, DO NOT PASS GO, DO NOT COLLECT $200 ! Get out of jail "FREE" card not applicable (pun intended.) Unfortunate incident, I feel sorry for Mr. Free, but it seems he brought this action on himself, who could know what he was thinking. Bill

I'm suspecting he put the butt stock in a Maytag washer on H.D. cycle to clean, not much finish on edges of butt plate. Then all wood was given a varnish of some type to get it nice and shiney and smooth. I think I'd try to get it to have sheen instead. Curious, he's also selling a S&W revolver mod.36 -- new in box, so why do I see the dreaded wear scratch in the blue all around the cylinder? I guess they rotate themselves in the box when they are bored. Looks like the 28N would be a pretty shooter. Bill

Ron, I'll take the can, please advise how I can get your email. Thanks Bill

What was the ebay item number ? Thanks, Bill

Bob, each had 20 rounds. bill

Three "experts" test the guns. Watch and see for yourself, link: " Schmeisser vs. Thompson vs. Grease Gun -- WW2 Submachine Gun Shootoff " Well, I guess that finally puts the arguement to rest about which is most effective, easiest to control, etc. "best." Haven't had many heated debates here lately, thought I'd stir the pot. Bill

Sounds really hokey to me, but if you Google the company- it shows at that number? I might call them and ask if "Martie" works there and his position. If I discover anything interesting I'll post my findings. Bill