Cut 1921 AC Receiver Parts

[Bob]

Anyone here bidding on this?

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/718982219

 

Just wondering.

[benedw60]

I am

[firearm]

What parts? Nothing here but the rear detent and a spring. Also not a legal de-mill. I would touch it.

[firearm]

Meant, "I would not touch it".

[TD.]

Why is this not a legal "de-mil?" If the destruction was done "long ago" as stated in the auction, I see no reason why the pieces of NO 6321 would not be legal to own. In addition, it is not a complete receiver.

 

Here are few pictures of the rest of the story! So sad

 

 

 

[firearm]

The link above took me to a pic of a saw cut receiver. Illegal. No matter how old. It has to be torch cut, removing "x" amount of material if I remember the NFA regs right. Then again I don't know everything. Best you fire a phone call off to the tech branch (304) 616-4500 and make sure. The pic of all the parts that you have above is quite legit. I don't see an upper saw cut receiver in those. Maybe I am missing something?

[TD.]

So if a Thompson receiver is destroyed by cutting in three or more pieces with a saw prior to the adoption of the touch cutting requirement removing X amount of metal, that previously destroyed receiver is now illegal?

[Bob]

Firearm,

You are incorrect.

 

That is not the complete saw cut receiver it's missing the front section that was still attached to the barrel when he sold the parts kit. Unservicable historical scrap is what you see in the ad.

 

The demil spec you refer is for the import of non serviceable firearms, now implied by the internet experts. If the saw cut receiver contained all the parts ready to weld back together, could pose an issue if you don't have the secret handshake...

 

BTW, Tech branch is not at the number you listed; it's (304) 616-4300 and you would need to submit your request in writing.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Bob

[firearm]

I stand corrected. Did not notice the front of the receiver cut away. Like I said, I don't know everything. The parts alone in TD's post are where the money is. However, they do not show up in the link posted above. Only the receiver.

[Bob]

As he said those parts were sold years ago to a member here on the board.

 

Last I heard, he was keeping them as spares for his Colt in case something broke and they are not for sale. I do believe the remains are listed in Gordon's book. Really a shame that gun was cut because it was in very nice condition prior to the saw :-(

[JimB]

Saw Cuts are NOT Illegal

 

Torch cuts are only required on currently IMPORTED NFA and there are alternatives even to that.

 

Read the silly regs

 

Time and again people see those diagrams on the ATFE Website and fail to read. Those are import demil specs. There are no Domestic standards. Chop in half it's lawful.

Some even push this idiocy on non NFA arms insisting they must be torched up. That's made up fake News. Again a single cut is perfectly lawful.

 

Time to time ATFE has determined different things to be NFA per IMPORT

PPSh barrel trunnions for example. Those must now be destroyed on newly imported kitted up guns

Note carefully though there are folks selling domestic manufacture replacement barrel trunnions

Again, it's purely an IMPORTATION regulation.

 

Yes some things can become dubious

If they can racer tape it up and get it to dischage two or more rounds full auto it can be taken as a MG but even that's very uncommon

Edited November 30, 2017 by JimB

[rallen]

I'll chime in here also. Torch cut is required for imported receivers. Saw cut is fine on receivers cut here in the US. Like Jim B stated, some people don't understand this and throw a blanket over everything.

[reconbob]

. Can you link to the regulation on the ATF website were it specifies that simple saw-cutting

of a receiver is OK? If its a submachine gun such a receiver and the parts that go with

it would be considered a "set of parts from which a firearm can be assembled".

The ATF does not take into account the proper functioning or safety of cut receivers

and parts. If you can tape, expoxy, tack weld, etc. the receiver and fire ONE shot - even

if the gun were to break into pieces it would be considered "a set of parts from which a

firearm can be assembled", e.g. a firearm.

Saying that to your knowledge a domestic destruction stsndard does not exist does

not mean that in the absence of a regulation your personal opionion is

correct. Do you have a letter from FTB or have you been specifically told by an ATF

agent of office that they will accept one simple saw cut for destruction of a mschine

gun? If so link to it or scan it and post it. Many of us would be interested.

 

Bob

[rallen]

reconbob,

I can only speak from my experience. I take in a lot of LE class III trade-ins (ex. St. Louis Thompsons). Over the past 15 years I have cut up over 1,000 post sample guns. Mostly HK's and M16 variants. All this was done with a simple chop saw. That being said, during these years I have also had inspections. The inspectors conducting my inspections know exactly what I do and how I do it. I notify NFA of every class III receiver I destroy, to help keep the registry up to date. However, there is nothing saying that I have to notify them of the destruction. That being said, anyone getting a parts kit from me will not get the serial numbered portion of the receiver.

Roger

[JimB]

That's the problem Bob

much like so-called 80% receivers there is little to no guidance from the Bureau regarding these matters

 

On 80%s ATFE has taken a stand on AR lowers but that's about it. At one point folded AK blanks were a no-no then they became kosher, now they are even being sold with rails installed. Have you seen the tort tort milled AK galil 80% receivers the Bureau approved as non guns ?

 

For many years saw cuts were fine on imported kitted up guns. Issues developed with kits being built unlawfully which resulted in changes particularly under GWs administration.

again though these impacted only import, not domestic demilling.

again I refer you to the situation regarding PPSh trunnions. Per import regs the trunnion is by itself a MG. ATFE actually seized large numbers of kits that had been in country for many years over intact trunnions. Yet that said domestically made trunnions are non NFA

Confusing no ?

 

I am unaware of any letters outlining domestic destruction however I am aware of County Law Enforcement agencies that HAVE been advised by the Bureau to chop saw frames and receivers.

 

Another interesting example were the new in the factory box Walther MPKs that Bob Landies kitted up in the late 90s. What OOW did was to saw cut out the mag well which carried the SN. If you were an SOT Bob would provide the matching mag well otherwise one was easily fabricated from a section of M10/9 Ingram grip well. Those MPKs had been in country since the 70s and had been stored for some years by Interarms when Bob bought them up so they fell under a domestic demil rather than import standard

Edited December 1, 2017 by JimB

[JimB]

reconbob,

I can only speak from my experience. I take in a lot of LE class III trade-ins (ex. St. Louis Thompsons). Over the past 15 years I have cut up over 1,000 post sample guns. Mostly HK's and M16 variants. All this was done with a simple chop saw. That being said, during these years I have also had inspections. The inspectors conducting my inspections know exactly what I do and how I do it. I notify NFA of every class III receiver I destroy, to help keep the registry up to date. However, there is nothing saying that I have to notify them of the destruction. That being said, anyone getting a parts kit from me will not get the serial numbered portion of the receiver.

Roger

 

Yes this

Some retain the serialized portion of the receiver as proof of destruction however even that isn't required, it's just simple CYA for SOTs

Law Enforcement Agencies doing internal destructions as a rule don't care as they really have no rear to cover.