TomN Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 Hello All, I recently purchased a Sten MkII, it is at my FFL now awaiting the Form 4 approval. My FFL is a local gun range and they allow you to shoot your gun while you are waiting for the tax stamp, so I took a few minutes to check it out. Since this was the initial check out since purchase I did not know what to expect. It did not function well at first and it was gouging the casings when it was trying to feed them. After a few minutes I realized the back end of the bullets were hitting the ejector and being held at an odd angle, when the bolt came forward it would grab the side of the casing and jamb it up in the chamber. What I did that allowed the gun to run was...after the magazine was loaded I slapped it in my palm driving the bullets to the front on the mag. When inserted into the gun the bullets now cleared the ejector and fed well. After doing this several times I was able to run several magazines with no problem and feel pretty good about the gun. Is this common? Is there something I should adjust/correct? I could undercut the ejector a little to provide clearance but I don't want to weaken it. I would be interested in hearing any similar experiences or solutions you may have had. I also have a MP-40 and have been on the Machine Gun Board for several months. Cheers, Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyDixon Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 is this a tube gun, oa a c&r gun we need more info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted January 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 It's a tube gun, Charles Erb. I've got several Sten parts kits, I am going to try to make some comparisons on ejector position, size and shape. When I "stage" all the rounds to the front of the magazine it runs like a top, 20 rounds in a few seconds with no malfunction. OBTW, I tried several magazines with the same results, jambed when casual loaded, run fine when "staged" to the front of the mag. Looking forward to hearing your comments. Cheers, Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurencen Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 on the rounds that jamb, is there damage to the nose of the round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Iannamico Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 Improper ejector location was a problem on many tube guns, but I would think by this time, at least 31 years after the May ban, someone would have fixed it. I have two Erb Stens both run great. Check the angle of the top cartridge in a loaded magazine, should be 8-degrees. Sten mag lips are notorious for spreading apart and changing the feed angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted January 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) No, only on the case about 1/2 of the way from the back. After one jamb I removed the mag and before I cleared the round I looked into the mag well, I could see the bottom of the bolt against the side of the case. Tried to link to a picture but it did not work... Edited January 4, 2018 by TomN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted January 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 https://www.dropbox.com/s/3iejlcywdp9ohvt/Capture.JPG?dl=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurencen Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 Looks like the bolt is riding over the top of the round not hitting the back, mag fully in? mag dropped and bent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted January 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) Yes, you are correct the bolt is hitting the cartridge just past the bottom rim. The mag is going all the way in. Mag looks new, tried several, same issue with all tried, doubt they are all bent the same. Will try some older ones I have next. As mentioned in the first post...when I insert the mag the top round appears to be touching the bottom radius of the ejector keeping the rear of the case low and not allowing the bolt to catch the back rim. Because the underside of the ejector is rounded when the bullet is moved slightly forward (against the front of the mag) the back of the round rises enough to allow the bolt to catch it. When I load a mag the feed lips are holding the round at 8 degrees but when they are inserted and the back of the case hits the ejector the angle goes to 10+ degrees. Evidently nobody has seen this before. I think it will be a easy fix. Thanks for all the comments. Cheers,Tommy Edited January 4, 2018 by TomN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 Are you placing your hand on the magazine when firing? Often times a shooter will use the magazine as a grip which causes a failure to feed properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted January 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 No, I am not placing my hand on the mag when firing, I had read previously that could cause a problem and I avoided doing it. I have been placing my hand on the underside of the barrel shroud. Thanks for the suggestion. Cheers,Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurencen Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 you have a picture of the bolt face? the 2 grooves on the brass should be contacting the rear of the brass, take a fired brass empty, put it in the mag and look into the ejector side cycle the bolt and see if the bolt is riding above the brass or behind stripping the mag, it should be hitting the back, if not then maybe the mag has been dropped on lips and not allowing the round to sit high enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Iannamico Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 I looked at your photo, it looks like the bolt is hitting the top of the rounds instead of the base. As someone mentioned, look at the bottom of the bolt to see if the two "legs" are intact. They do break off.As I recall the tip of the ejector should be exactly in line with the rear edge of the mag well. The ejector should not touch (or move) the cartridges in the mag. Take a photo of the ejector position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Iannamico Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 Google "Sten ejector position" it should take you to the Weaponeer Sten build site, may find some info there. Here is a LOONG link, to some pictures might work https://www.google.com/search?q=sten+ejector+position&rlz=1C1GIWA_enUS667US667&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=_xM_dRq7JEL_nM%253A%252CLRgIaP0bp2h-AM%252C_&usg=__AKrXPtV5CpYd5gtU7y4xuoMSqxM%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-pbqP1r7YAhXBmuAKHTR1AzoQ9QEIMjAB#imgrc=_xM_dRq7JEL_nM: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3bobby Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 Can you post a photo of your breech block and the mag? Is the mag flat on the back or is there a depression running along the length of it? I just wonder why there is a gap for the rounds to be able to forward when you tap the mag. I dont think any of mine allow that much movement unless the mag is for the Chinese 7.65 Tok modified STENs (I would love to find one of these mags). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted January 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 Guys, thanks for all the comments. Since the gun is at the FFL it will be a day or two until I can go get pictures. Yes the mag has the channel at the back, the rounds. I have a dozen or more Sten mags and while they have small differences all of them allow at least 3/16" bullet movement front to back. I do understand you should be able to load and fire without having to seat all the bullets forward in the mag. I have some "more used" mags I will try next time I go but when I compare them they look the same except the shape of the follower is a little different. They both hold the bullet at about a 8 degree angle. The gray mag is one of three identical mags I got with the gun and are the ones I tried. The other one is on of 8 I got 20 years ago with some Sten parts kits, I will try it next time I go. https://www.dropbox.com/s/6moxn93vsudehj2/IMG_2775.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/cewgchs851u561v/IMG_2774.jpg?dl=0 Hopefully I can get some pictures tomorrow and look at the bottom of the bolt. Cheers,Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurencen Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 when the round is seated forward in the mag it also raises the round helping it contact the bolt, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3bobby Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 Your black mag is an Indian modified mag, it becomes a single stack mag which helped with the jamming issue these mags sometimes suffered with, other than that observation, there is nothing obviously wrong with them so as Frank has said, it must be the ejector. I can take measurements of how far the ejector protrudes into the body if it would help. I have 6 original Mk2s, a Mk3, a Mk5 and a Mk1 in the collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted January 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 So I went and spent some time with the Sten and for the most part it functioned fine. I tried 5 different magazines and only one had a failure to feed, it was on the first round, I cleared the jamb and it ran the remaining mag flawlessly. What I thought I saw the other day" the bullets hitting the ejector" I did not see today. I also did not "seat" the bullets against the front of the mags, I just loaded them and ran them (with the one failure to feed). I also found some other mags in another box...pictures are not great but is there anything special or unusual about them?https://www.dropbox.com/s/zvyu18gg0osxaob/IMG_2799.jpg?dl=0https://www.dropbox.com/s/2o7kqvcmlkhmra8/IMG_2801.jpg?dl=0 Here is a picture of the ejector/mag...https://www.dropbox.com/s/dzq2tysxbnsc3ms/IMG_2791.jpg?dl=0 At this point I'm not sure what to think. I have found at least 5 mags that seem to work well so I think I can now enjoy shooting it. Thanks for all the comments and ideas for things to look at, I really liked learning about the "indian modified" mags, I have 5 of them, I went and did a few searches trying to find more info, neat. Cheers,Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron_brock Posted January 6, 2018 Report Share Posted January 6, 2018 I dont remember which issue, but Frank had a nice article on Sten mags in SAR some time back. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgeport28A1 Posted January 6, 2018 Report Share Posted January 6, 2018 That issue with the Sten magazine article was a SAR issue given to me at a TATA Show and Shoot. Thanks Frank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3bobby Posted January 6, 2018 Report Share Posted January 6, 2018 As Peter Laidler says, you should buy 50 mags, find 10 that work, keep them and sell the rest. And that comes from the longest serving British Armourer (now retired). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted January 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2018 Is this the article you were referring to... http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=3018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3bobby Posted January 6, 2018 Report Share Posted January 6, 2018 (edited) No but the author of that article is the very same person who replied in a few replies above. Peter L is the author of The STEN machine carbine published by collector grade books. He was a serving British Armourer from the 1960s upto only a few years ago (As a reservist). I am a serving British Armourer but only met Peter through our common interest in the Bren LMG and not through our service. He frequents the milsurps forum and one of his regular pieces of advice is to buy as many mags as you can and sell the ones that dont work. Those that dont work in yours may very well work in the next. Ive been trying to locate a Chinese modified STEN mag for my Tok STEN. The Chinese converted their Long Branch STENs to 7.65 Tok some time in the 50s or 60s In 2 versions. The 1st used a Standard STEN mag with the back rib removed and a new plate welded in its place. This gave enough room for the 7.65 round (This May or may not be correct as Ive never seen one, even on the net). The 2nd used a PPSH mag inserted into a PPSH mag well welded in place of the STEN mag well. Edited January 6, 2018 by m3bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Iannamico Posted January 6, 2018 Report Share Posted January 6, 2018 Is this the article you were referring to... http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=3018There were two Sten MAG articles, the other one was about the original Mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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